WWE Raw results and reactions from last night (Feb. 20): A fresh John Cena
WWE Monday Night Raw last night (Feb. 20, 2012) emanated from Minneapolis, Minnesota, and featured Undertaker calling out Triple H to set up their match at WrestleMania and Chris Jericho winning a battle royal to set up his match against CM Punk at the "Grand Daddy of Them All." And we even got a newer -- and much fresher -- version of John Cena ... both good and bad.
If you want full results from Raw last night, click here for the running live blog. Time to get to reactions from the show:
- Oh, John Cena. Let me start by saying he was mostly awesome last night. I mean that in the best possible way. Having him kind of sort of shoot on Rock while letting him actually get passionate and show the side of him that doesn't involve cracking really bad jokes and snickering while wearing goofy clothes added depth to his character that's sorely been lacking. He put real emotion into this feud and took quite a few shots at Rock that he's going to have a hard time answering back to. If he comes back with something lame like "Cena's lady parts," he'll have lost this little volley. Cena just delivered an awesome opening shot and it's up to Rock to respond strong. Round one goes to Cena. Really great stuff.
- Now for the ridiculously crappy part of last night's show featuring Cena acting like a complete jackass. We know WWE is sexist and anyone not named Stephanie McMahon is treated with little to no respect but what in the blue hell was that opening segment last night? Eve turning heel on Zack Ryder was the right move and got her a ton of heat. But what happened next was just low and frankly, irresponsible on WWE's part. To have her get caught by Cena and then trot her down to the ring so Cena could basically call her a slut and entice the crowd to call her a whore while she lay there crying was the worst possible message WWE could send. She throws herself at Cena and he reacts by saying, "I'm disease free and would like to keep it that way." This after he blamed her for losing his best friend -- "I lost a broksi for a hoski." Uh, did you forget, John, that YOU FREAKING PULLED THE DICK MOVE BY KISSING HER BACK AND THEN ACTING LIKE A DICK ABOUT IT. How is it possible that he gets to take the high road and turn Even into a modern day Lita? This is how WWE is getting him over to the audience? The most sad aspect of this is the one time Cena got the crowd to unanimously do something with him was when he was asking them to belittle a crying women in the ring by calling her a whore and pointing and laughing at her. This was such utterly ridiculous crap that as my partner in crime Sergio opined, this has to mean she's about to get future endeavored, right? That was a grade A burial by the biggest star in the company.
- Last point on this and then we'll move on. An argument was made last night on the Cageside Twitter account that Eve shouldn't get to connive her way through Ryder, dump him and then try to manipulate Cena without having to pay some sort of price for it when she was caught. And I agree with that. But is this really the price she should have had to pay? If WWE is marketing to a 12-17 age range with a guy like Cena, what did he just teach them? That if a woman betrays your friend by messing around with you and you find out she just wanted to play you, too, you can insult her by calling her a bitch and a whore and then encourage large crowds to do the same. It's okay to ruthlessly berate her, because hey, she deserves it, right? That's what women get when they act this way! No. That's not how it should be. And in a similar situation, there are far better ways to handle it. What a disturbing message sent by WWE. John Cena rises above hate but he's not above calling women bitches and whores (even though he was acting like a whore, too) when he finds out they're planning to play him.
- Seriously, to hell with John Cena after that.
- I really thought the manner in which Undertaker got Triple H to accept the match was quite brilliant. And to those that took issue with Trips only accepting the match to prove he's better than Shawn Michaels, have you watched WWE programming for the past 20 years? This is exactly the angle they should be using. It's one of the rare times they've actually bothered with continuity. Hunter and his buddy Shawn spent their entire career trying to one up each other in a constant struggle over who was the better of the two. This dates all the way back to the D-Generation X days. That's not even mentioning the fan debate throughout the years. Plus, it made for that awesome moment with Undertaker outright telling "The Game" he was never as good as "The Heartbreak Kid." Because, you know, he wasn't.
Thoughts on the rest of the show after the jump.
- If you weren't sold on Undertaker vs. Triple H part three last night, you're just not going to be. Although we knew they were headed for a match, we thought Shawn Michaels would be the special guest referee and that would be the only gimmick. And while that's still possible -- and would be awesome -- instead they went with the Hell in a Cell (HIAC) match. It produced a genuinely surprising moment and instantly provided excitement for the match. I mean, these are the two guys who have been in more HIAC matches than anyone else, ever. And for the first time in god knows how long, WWE properly used this stipulation. This is how you get two guys inside the Cell, not just creating a pay-per-view and forcing it.
- Ain't No Grave by Johnny Cash was a great song to use for Undertaker. The Memory Remains by Metallica is not. I know they're pushing the idea that he can't get rid of the memory of Triple H beating the hell out of him at WrestleMania last year but that doesn't mean you find a song he likes with the right title. And I'm a Metallica fan who greatly enjoys most of their work. The song doesn't even fit the scenario. It's about a former celebrity driven mad by the fact that no one cares anymore. Just because the title fits doesn't mean it should be used.
- Sheamus is still really bland and I have a hard time with the fact that they basically took Randy Orton's gimmick, gave it Sheamus, started calling him "The Great White," and expect us to cheer him accordingly. Maybe marks at arenas are willing to do so but I just don't see enough from him week in and week out to commit any actual emotion to what he's doing. And that's the name of the game, after all. I need a reason to care and he doesn't give me one.
- One night after Sheamus chose to challenge Daniel Bryan for the world heavyweight championship at WrestleMania 28, they both had singles matches on Raw that had nothing to do with each other. Both won clean and both won quick. Neither interacted with the other. Get hyped for 'Mania, huh?
- Maybe no one else feels this way but if the only way to keep the tag team division alive is to randomly throw two guys together -- in this case Kofi Kingston and R-Truth -- and have them beat the tag team champions clean to earn a shot at said tag team champions, I would rather they just kill the division altogether. The belts look goofy enough that I wouldn't care if I never saw them again. It's almost as bad as the Diva's division at this point. I just don't care because they never bother to give me any reason to. Plus, what the hell are Kingston and Truth doing teaming together one night after competing against each other for the title with no explanation for it. They were in there acting like best buddies. Just dumb.
- Ron Simmons in the Hall of Fame. DAMN!
- I dig the idea of John Laurinaitis and Teddy Long feuding over control of the two shows. It actually adds an air of importance to the position that doesn't really exist otherwise. It also gives both of them something to do. Hell, I even enjoyed David Otunga going over clean on Ezekial Jackson, though he was a tad sloppy while doing so. The thumbs up Laurinaitis gave Long after Otunga got the pin was absolute money, too. More of this, please.
- I don't want anyone to tell me that they killed Santino Marella's heat by having Daniel Bryan beat him clean in a short match. No, they didn't. Santino will always be over with this character, no matter how many times he gets beat. He's built to lose, really. He's our funny guy, remember? Our funny guy doesn't need to win to be our funny guy. This, of course, was proven later in the night when he was still crazy over and getting huge pops for eliminating Wade Barrett and R-Truth in the battle royal. They don't need to push him, he's just fine where he is.
- Speaking of the battle royal, what a terrible idea, huh? Not only was it the laziest way to get to Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk for the WWE title at WrestleMania, it damn near got everyone involved killed. No less than five of the nine guys eliminated took bad bumps on their way out. Kingston's fall looked ugly, Truth and Barrett both had a bad spill and then, of course, Ziggler took a rough one on the chin on the announce table, which is also where Barrett ended up breaking his arm. When Santino was eliminated, he was nearly thrown directly onto Barrett while he was still being attended to by physicians. It was just terrible all around.
- Jericho winning that battle royal felt like a way for WWE to make up for him not winning the Royal Rumble like he was originally booked to. But how cheap was this? He couldn't win the Rumble to get his title match, instead winning a crappy 10-man battle royal and even then, he needed help from Cody Rhodes to get Big Show over to win the match. After showing up with a fresh new character and ton a of hype, Jericho has quickly become just another annoying character on TV. The feud with he and Punk is terribly weak. "I'm the best in the world." "No, I'm the best in the world." "No, me." "No, me." "Let's have a match at 'Mania to find out." "Fine." "Fine." Just shut up.
- How does WWE follow up a cool Divas match at the pay-per-view last night? By having neither participant in said match appear on Raw and throwing out Kelly Kelly, Aksana and the Bellas to go 75 seconds and do the same tired crap they always do.
For all the various issues with it, this was actually a pretty damn good show, mostly because it set up WrestleMania well. Jericho and Punk's feud sucks so far, but we can be fairly sure they'll deliver at the big show in the match and that's what matters. 'Taker and Triple H in a Hell in a Cell is awesome and John Cena upped his game and made The Rock match super personal. Everything looks great going forward.
Overall, I'll give it a solid C+ and that would be higher if not for my disgust with how they handled the Eve thing.
That's enough from me, though, Cagesiders. Now it's your turn to sound off in the comments section below with all your thoughts from the show.
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I really liked all of Raw last night
I am super excited for mania. I want to see a tombstone off the top of the cell into the spanish announcers table..
Eve admitting she was only using Ryder makes no sense
because Kane was trying to kill her. If she’s just using the guy for gits and shiggles, why in the world wouldn’t she dump the guy once her life is threatened? Why would she continue to hang around with a guy she’s got no feelings for if it might lead to her being raped and/or mutilated? Stupid blowoff to a stupid storyline.
And I agree with you that allowing Cena to berate a woman in public like that is deplorable. Apparently, it’s not bullying if it’s a man talking to a woman? And the woman did something sort of bad? Whatever. I guess Kane won in the end, because Cena sure embraced the hate.
I think we’re building towards Ryder interfering at WrestleMania and costing Cena the match with the Rock, under Eve’s influence. At least then we might salvage something out of the worst WWE storyline in years.
I am shocked they put Eve in the heel car and it went from 0-80 in three seconds.
And then they absolutely killed her.
However, if I am wrong in my assumption here, I will take the heat, but I feel like many here are huge fans of the attitude era and clamor for that to come back. What happened to Eve last night was a page straight out of that era. Many of you made references to Lita. How many times did Trish Stratus get humiliated by Vince McMahon? The WWE has made a habit of making women look like fools for the most part, so why anyone finds yesterday shocking at all is beyond me? I also saw all the comments about how the PG rating has disappeared.
Bottom line, if you were fan of the attitude era, than last nights segment with Eve should have been the yellow brick road back there.
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
No the attitude era was different. Sure women got berated then like Cena berated Eve… but the women that happened to were usually either in power (Stephanie) or were closely aligned with someone powerful enough to pair the berating comments with consequences.
Last night was just Cena berating a woman with no recourse but to sit/stand there and take it.
Everything you wrote in the first paragraph echoes my thoughts exactly on how this made no sense.
As for Ryder, I really doubt they will let a relative nobody like him get involved in the biggest match ever. Maybe he’ll get involved with Cena on Raw before Mania or after Mania, but he’s just not a big enough star to have him actually interfere during that match at Mania. At least I hope that isn’t the plan.
I think it is more likely that Ryder remains a face, realizes Eve was a ho, and forgives Cena. Then perhaps it will move towards a Ryder/Kane feud.
Well, something needs to happen
The problem with the WM match is that it has no ending. Cena, the biggest star in the WWE right now, shouldn’t be losing to a guy who hasn’t wrestled in seven years. But I really don’t believe that the Rock’s ego will allow him to job for a guy in his big return match in his hometown. So they need a way for someone to loose but save face. Having someone come down and attack/distract Cena, leading to him eating a Rock Bottom and the pin, makes the most sense; it gives the match a clear ending but doesn’t bury Cena. And then it allows Cena to move on to a new program after WrestleMania. Right now, Ryder makes the most sense, with his motivation being that he cost Cena the one thing he cares about- winning at WrestleMania- as revenge for Cena costing Ryder the one thing he cares about, Eve. We already have Eve revealed as a manipulating Jezebel, so having her use Ryder to get back at Cena for humiliating her is a logical next step. Ryder’s status right now doesn’t matter; this is the angle to make him a star. Conceivably.
by Ken Raining on Feb 21, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
rocky had never had a problem putting guys over as far as I know. gotta be one of the reasons smarks still love the guy right?
He knows the guy with the bandage on his ass is going no were. Were you going fucking no were
by Elstriko on Feb 21, 2012 10:57 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yes.
Rock was one of the few guys who became a mega star who would use his status to put guys over. The opposite of Triple H, if you will.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Feb 21, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Losing =/= jobing
If they have a great match and Rock gets pinned, then it works. I really hope they don’t overbook their biggest show of the year.
I'm big, I'm white, I'm Irish, and G*d damnit people like me!
by C. J. Bradford on Feb 21, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
it twas in regard
to him saying he does not thank rocky would do the job cause ego
He knows the guy with the bandage on his ass is going no were. Were you going fucking no were
by Elstriko on Feb 21, 2012 11:11 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yes I get that
But he can still lose and it not be a job.
I'm big, I'm white, I'm Irish, and G*d damnit people like me!
by C. J. Bradford on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
sorry to mislead that comment
I agree jobbing and loseing are not the same. and rock and cena can come put of this thing looking better if they play there cards right
He knows the guy with the bandage on his ass is going no were. Were you going fucking no were
by Elstriko on Feb 21, 2012 11:21 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Didn't mean to be short
I was writing some else and it just caught my eye. I don’t think they will have a overbooked finished to end WrestleMania. My assumption will be Cena wins clean, but Rock will carry the feud past it. If Ryder or someone interferes, it would hurt everyone involved. A good, clean, fun match would make both Cena and Rock look great.
I'm big, I'm white, I'm Irish, and G*d damnit people like me!
by C. J. Bradford on Feb 21, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
could not agree more
He knows the guy with the bandage on his ass is going no were. Were you going fucking no were
by Elstriko on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
And I agree with you agreeing
I knew there was a reason I liked you
I'm big, I'm white, I'm Irish, and G*d damnit people like me!
by C. J. Bradford on Feb 21, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that Cena should win clean
I just don’t think that’s what will happen. I just find it hard to believe that the Rock returned and agreed to a year’s build up to put Cena over. Plus, if Cena wins clean, he might get booed out of the building. Not exactly the image you want ending the “biggest match in history” for your standard-bearer.
by Ken Raining on Feb 21, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
After Cena called Eve and Rock bitches..
Did he turn to the camera and mouthed ’I’m Back’? Just wondering if it means anything.
i think he said
“my bad.”
"I don't have an on-deck circle for ideas. It's just 'Batter up!!' Even though they're bad" - Mike Birbiglia
by Parkinglotninja on Feb 21, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Although it was barely audible, you could hear him say, “I’m back.” Don’t know what the meaning behind it was, though. Maybe we’ll find out soon, if there’s anything to it. Then again, it could just be Cena being Cena.
On a different note, has anyone entertained the idea that maybe Eve and Kane were in cahoots this whole time? Maybe they were working together to achieve their goals, playing Cena and Ryder like pawns? Kane was killing Kenny, I mean, Ryder, each week, to get Cena to embrace the hate, and Eve was playing along as the damsel in distress, using the whole situation to garner herself more attention. Besides, did Kane ever actually hurt Eve during this whole thing, or did he just make it LOOK like he was going to, to lure in Cena?
Maybe it’s just another one of my brainfarts, but is that idea beyond plausibility, especially considering this is WWE we’re talking about?
You shut your mouth, fat boy!
Rise above plot coherence
C+ sounds right, although I think it’s fair to say I want Santino to get a midcard belt at least.
And yeah, the one time Cena gets unilaterally cheered, he’s doing that. Do you blame the actor or the crowd for supporting him?
by Flashking on Feb 21, 2012 8:57 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Santino and Cobra
new tag team champs
by Thats It For you! on Feb 21, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
Raw just angers me now. Why did Primo and Epico lose clean? What was the purpose of the Eve segment? Showing her crying and being taken up the ramp for 10 minutes? Really? Sheamus over Henry via squash? Such a travesty. I turned it off after an hour.
Wrestling is so different now. Nothing makes sense. It boggles the mind.
It was a rare night
where I would have actually been happy to see some non clean finishes. Let Rosa help Primo and Epico cheat their way to winning that match. Have Bryan’s music come on and distract Sheamus to take the Henry loss. There was no need for a clean win for the good guys in those matches.
Eve acted like a hoski and got called a hoski
I really don’t see much of an issue with that. Its no different than when Cena and King got the crowd riled up to boo the living hell out of Vickie Guerrero, and I didn’t see a problem with that either. This is still a TV show where these guys are all playing characters. In any TV show, when the girl screws over the guy (and in this case, its 2 guys she screwed over), she gets portrayed as a ho.
You can see my comments above
Me personally, that one line was the only bright spot. The rest of the segment was downright brutal. From Eve running down to the ring begging John Cena to hear her out, to her trying to kiss him, to him saying he’s disease free, shakes my fricking head!
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
lol, I like your comment about going from 0-80 in 3 seconds
My complaint about the whole thing is pretty much just that. Instead of doing the slow, manipulative heel turn, they just went through like 3 weeks worth of Raws in the first 10 minutes for Eve.
And thank God they did do it so quickly. I’ll take ending that shit in 3 minutes than drawing the shitty angle out for a month. Funny how people will show there hate for this angle and then have an issue with it not being drawn out over several weeks.
by Chris Cutrer on Feb 21, 2012 10:43 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
true but:
It’s mainly cause whether or not they like the angle, we feel if they want to make us like the angle or have fiath in it then they should act as if they want to go foward with it and not half a** it, no matter how the fans feel about it the moment, at least we’ll still feel some respect or feel liek they are at least trying to show that they actually care about putting a decent segment or show for that matter.
It's a sexist route to take.
They basically sacrificed and objectified her to take the bullet for Cena, to bear the brunt of heat and to clear him from his role in betraying Ryder.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
So? Guys have been used to help push Cena just like Eve was used yesterday.
You’re implying that the WWE is picking Eve as a Cena sacrifice because she’s a woman, but in reality, they’re mostly just picking her because she’s the best sacrificial lamb right now. If they had to sacrifice Ziggler or Rhodes to get the crowd on Cena’s side a bit more, they’d do that too.
They sacrificed her in such a gendered and sexualized way
and the way Cena buried her was completely uncalled for. It’s just a big cop out and the fact that it’s standard practice to throw people, regardless of gender, under the bus for Cena, doesn’t make up for the sexism in this particular angle.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
The story did call for it
I would have preferred to see it stretched out longer or for Cena to succumb to Eve’s feminine wile, but as option C, what happened was okay with me. If she’s getting future endeavored, it makes even more sense, but its not like its a death sentence for her if she isn’t.
I'm sorry
the story NEVER calls for a woman to lay crying in the ring while the biggest star in the company encourages the crowd to call her a whore. Dude, fuck that line of thinking.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Feb 21, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Did Eve know this going in?
If she was trying to help get that reaction, then I don’t agree with all of the defense. If this was all scripted and planned, you can say all you want, but point is she was on board.
Now if she wasn’t and this was a last minute curveball thrown by Cena and creative to completely bury her, then I’m with you.
I think we get our answer the following week if they decide to carry Guiding Light on.
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
I don't care about Eve here
and I’m not carrying a torch for her. I’m lambasting WWE for the shitty and terrible message they’re sending with segments like this. For calling themselves “Creative,” they sure struggle to come up with interesting things to say. Woman screws man over, man calls woman whore, encourages large crowd to do the same. Terrible.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Feb 21, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
It's pro wrestling for the last 15 years or so in the WWE.
I applaud your stance, but this is the project we choose to watch.
And the unfortunate thing here is they can’t use their “its not a family program” line they did back in the good old days of “get it?” Yes, I agree with you about the message being sent. However, how is that different from society? I don’t want to talk about this from a real perspective. But art imitates life. If this were a real situation, would you say the same thing happens say in high school? Girl screws over guy, girl gets rep for being a slut.
But to your point, its never flattering to see 20,000 people calling you a hoeski.
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
Agreed
And it’s ironic that Cena was wearing a shirt that says “Rise Above Hate” while he did so.
by Ken Raining on Feb 21, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
What?
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Feb 21, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
I chuckled a little if its any consolation
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
also:
sadly, it’s desparate of what they’ll do in order to get a few more fans to like/or stop booing Cena is truly amazing. first of course have Rock water himself down last year and probably in the next coming week as well, while they write some some good borderline PG-13/R jabs for Cena , then make him look a martyr for sacrificing a title shot (and you know d*mn well he’ll have the belt by the end of the year lmao) for Ryder but oh no now they have to rush this storyline with Eve (also to patch up the fact that she was inadvertently seen calmly walking into the ambulance lol by the cameras when they weren’t supposed to show her yet). I also think they got the HHH/UT will they or won’t they deal out the way because of a certain person returning and will probably receive all the attention next week….
One concern I have for the HIAC
How much extra scaffolding and supports are they going to have to build around the ring to support it during the opening matches. A buddy of mine has an extra ticket I was thinking of buying off of him but it is about 2/3rds of the way up. I don’t want to go to Wrestlemania and not see any of the matches because I’ll be looking through the Cell and all of the support stuff.
by Jonathan Loesche on Feb 21, 2012 9:31 AM EST reply actions
Totally agree on Cena and the Punk/Jericho fued.
For the first time in ages they actually had a story that made me want to watch. Cena had a chance to develop real depth while also escalating Ryder. The whole storyline is proof that they are just flying by the seat of their pants with no real attemp to maintain a fluid logical storyline. Hell the end last week with Cena and Ryder and Eve had me wanting more for the first time in a LONG time.
And they have totally screwed the Jericho/Punk feud. We are supposed to beleive he is the best in the world when he hasn’t beaten anyone clean since his return? The whole feud just feels forced. They haven’t really established any real depth to the feud other than a weak game of I’m better than you. They really do spend too much time trying to surprise fans as opposed to telling an interesting story.
by DustinH(oo) on Feb 21, 2012 9:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Raw was good once you got past the Cena/Eve trainwreck
The battle royal idea I didn’t have a problem with, but the fact that 3 of the 10 guys had matches before hand made little sense to me. And Geno what you said about the tag teams is dead on. Especially if we have to see 10 matches a month between Epico/Primo vs the Usos.
I feel very much like the Punk/Jericho feud needs to pick up steam fast. Whoever thought we would be sighing at that one 40 days from WM, and getting more excited about the HHH/Taker match.
I do not think HHH is going to break the streak. But I think both guys are getting carried out of this one. If not, I’ll be surprised. Taker will leave 20-0.
Couldn’t agree more about the Divas. Pointless match when you just had a very solid match between Beth Phoenix and Tamina the night before.
Geno, loved your post about Santino being our funny guy. Santino IMO is the Duggan for this generation. Having them team up a few weeks ago was hysterical.
Cena made up for the beginning with his end. Can’t wait to see what the Rock says next week. Hope he starts the show.
All in all decent Raw. Good build for Mania except for Bryan/Sheamus
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
I was one of the guys saying that HHH changing his mind due to the HBK angle made no sense. So let me explain where I was coming from.
They have made two things clear when it comes to what motivates HHH’s decisions.
1: Business is more important than ending the streak
2. Being better than HBK is more important than business.
Therefore, by transitive argument, we are logically forced to conclude that being better than HBK is more important than ending the streak.
My point is: that doesn’t make sense, because ending the streak proves you are better than HBK. Isn’t that why HHH finally accepted the match after all? If he was so supremely motivated to prove he was better than HBK, he would have simply accepted Taker’s initial challenge several weeks ago.
So am I over thinking that?
Yes
Basically, HHH feels he’s better than HBK and didn’t feel the need to prove it by actually beating Taker. He was the only that was able to walk away from their match last year, which HBK wasn’t able to do. However, Taker bringing it up to HHH makes HHH feel like he has to prove it to Taker now.
Or something like that.
So HHH knows he’s better than HBK but is only taking the challenge because he wants to prove it to Taker?
That seems crazy to me. I think it is much more believable that HHH still needs to prove to himself that he is better than HBK, and defeating Taker at Mania will prove that fact. I just don’t really know why he needed Undertaker to remind HHH of his desire to be better than HBK if it was still such a burning passion of his.
And what is with HHH’s talk about how he “has never been more certain of anything in my life” when declining the challenge. For someone who has never been more certain about anything in his life, it didn’t really take much for him to suddenly change his mind
I don’t want anyone to tell me that they killed Santino Marella’s heat by having Daniel Bryan beat him clean in a short match.
Don’t agree with this. Devalues a terrific match from EC just 24 hours later and the match served no purpose other than to put him in his place.
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
How about this?
Santino shouldn’t have been put in a match with Bryan. Santino should have been kept in the battle royal and that is all. Did Bryan need to have a match? I guess he did, but not really. He could have come out and delivered a great promo, Sheamus could have come out and they exchange some verbal stuff, and then Sheamus wrestles Henry later, and Bryan interferes furthering the feud and build. I don’t buy Sheamus squashing Henry like he did. Sorry
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
I agree on all points
Santino getting pinballed in the battle royal was fine, but the match against Bryan was pointless. Geno is claiming “funny guy” is bullet proof, but what happened in that match that was funny?
I also don’t like Sheamus going over so easily on Mark Henry but I’m not sure if it’s because of the booking or the fact that Sheamus just bores me.
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
by Jesse Holland on Feb 21, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying he's bullet proof.
I’m saying his gimmick and the way his character operates means he doesn’t need to win matches to get over. Remember, in pro wrestling, it’s not all about winning and losing. His heat hasn’t been killed and he’s still just as over as he was before.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Feb 21, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
But you are in agreement that the match between Bryan and him was pointless
And my scenario is better correct?
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
Yes.
I don’t understand why Bryan and Sheamus had singles matches and did nothing together.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Feb 21, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Ok so you can’t go back and watch that chamber match and still enjoy it. Sorry but I find that impossible to believe. It’s Santino, when he has a chance yo win the big one people are into it but if he wins then people will talk about how disgraceful it is a comedy geek won. How they booked him on RAW makes no difference at all. He was the retarded kid that got voted prom king, everyone cheered but they all knew it was a fucking joke.
by Chris Cutrer on Feb 21, 2012 10:49 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
No
If he won, it would have been fine. It wouldn’t have been disgraceful, but weird. Quite the swerve by the brains at WWE if it happened. I would have found it entertaining. What I have an issue with is the lack of build with Sheamus and Bryan. There was no reason for Santino to be entered into a squash with Bryan. NONE. That match went like 2-3 minutes or so. Now what he did at battle royal made you cheer for him again, but anyone could tell you Jericho was winning that one.
I just think Santino’s niche is being funny guy. Teddy Long’s assistant. You know a program between Otunga and him would rule! However, if he got the belt, I wouldn’t have an issue with that. The only problem would prompt me to ask a question, can you see Santino being a headlining force at Mania?
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
I thought this episode of Raw was disappointing. It had 2 awesome promo segments (Cena and HHH/Taker) but aside from that a good chunk of the show made no sense or was just filler with no bearing on Mania.
The tag match with Kofi/Truth made no sense. Why would those guys even try to compete in that match if they have a shot at Mania on the line later in the show? And yeah, the tag titles are completely worthless.
The segments with Sheamus, the Divas, and Bryan all seemed like unnecessary filler. I guess every episode will have some of that, but I was hoping for something more interesting out of Sheamus/Bryan.
Cena’s thing with Eve at the beginning has already been torn to shreds by many for obvious reasons.
I initially complained about Santino jobbing so quickly, but yeah, that was dumb on my behalf. That’s what Santino’s role is. That doesn’t hurt him at all.
The battle royal was a lame excuse to get Jericho in there with Punk at Mania. That entire segment was a trainwreck aside from Punk’s commentary, which was freakin’ amazing.
I’m not really on board yet with the whole Ace/Long thing but it was a decent segment and I am interested to see where they are going with it.
RAW
Fantastic promo with Taker and HHH. Whisper it quietly but this is gaining serious ground on Rock Cena now with the addition of Hell in a Cell. These guys are gonna put on one hell of a show to draw the curtain on one hell of an “era”.
Having said that boy was Cena good. The opening scene with Eve well…ridiculous? Yes. Offensive? Yes. A train wreck? Yes. Did I friggin’ love it? YES. Cena ended Sunday as Super Cena and entered RAW as a total, total d*ckhead. Wonderful. This is about as close as we’re gonna get to a Cena heel turn and IMO if this is continued it could potentially be better. Cena’s character added so many layers during that show. His promo aimed at the Rock? Meh. Good in places. You could feel his genuine intensity and his honesty was refreshing.
But annunciating “wrestling”? What? Come on now John don’t kid yourself.
Perplexing roles with Bryan and Sheamus. Their feud will hopefully pick up more on Smackdown. Nice to see Sheamus get a credible win against a tough opponent. Those complaining that he went over too quickly – time issues most probably.
Punk-Jericho. flop
Looks very rushed and neither of them are making much sense. You’re spot on Geno with:
“I’m the best in the world.” “No, I’m the best in the world.” “No, me.” “No, me.” “Let’s have a match at ’Mania to find out.” “Fine.” “Fine.”
You know what would save this? Give them 20 minutes in the ring with two microphones to cut a shoot style promo. For too long Punk has been taking smart arsed jibes from atop his ivory tower. Why aren’t the two best talkers in the company right now not being given time to go at each other. I like the idea of the “best wrestler in the world” feud but the execution at the moment is very tame.
Long/Ace. I like it. Perhaps building for a match like Trump-McMahon? They each pick a guy to fight for them at ’Mania. Winner becomes GM for both shows, loser is future endeavoured.
DAMN. Rosa Mendes is hot.
I’m hoping that with the match finally official, next week we’ll get the epic Punk/Jericho promo that we’ve all been waiting for.
Cena ended Sunday as Super Cena and entered RAW as a total, total d*ckhead. Wonderful. This is about as close as we’re gonna get to a Cena heel turn and IMO if this is continued it could potentially be better.
The problem there is, he’s not going to get shit for it from the audience. Rather than being portrayed as a dick, they’re making him out to be another victim of wanton female hypersexuality. It’s like Lawler’s Vickie Guerrero jokes. Even though he’s acting like a dick, you’re supposed to cheer him on, laugh at his jokes and ridicule her as the villain.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
I loved Cena's promo on the the Rock though.
He’s so much better when he cuts the comedy. And even though he was pushing tired points, the Rock has never answered them and has instead resorted to bush-league catchphrases and namecalling.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
the Rock has replied
his first promo back last year, in fact, where he addressed the slights of Cena and reiterated his lineage and his love of the business and his connection with the fans. Cena was the one, with his responses “in the form of Hip-Hop”, that reduced everything to grade school taunts.
Rock is limited in how honestly he can reply. He can’t say “I left for Hollywood at the first chance because it gave me a way to make money and entertain the fans that didn’t leave me broke and hooked on painkillers and dead by 45” and he shouldn’t have to apologize for being successful in ways that others have tried but failed at, espcially when that success will bring more eyes (and dollars) to WM and benefit everyone.
Methinks they have written themselves into a corner with this one, letting it get so personal when it would’ve functioned being about generation clash.
Who wants to save the world? That's what misers do...
by theloupgaroukid on Feb 21, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I like where you are going with this
However, Rock can and will come back personal in a way we will love. At least those of us who hate superCena
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
Fair point
But Cena was on another level with his abuse. There is just no way he could have been that remorseless just for comedy.
Think of it this way, it’s clear Cena will play the heel in Miami. He can’t do a full frontal heel turn because that would be a commercial disaster for WWE. With him being such a dick last night perhaps it will change his female audience’s perceptions of him. Surely they can’t have been laughing along?
This is one of the biggest problems in the WWE
Perplexing roles with Bryan and Sheamus. Their feud will hopefully pick up more on Smackdown. Nice to see Sheamus get a credible win against a tough opponent. Those complaining that he went over too quickly – time issues most probably
There are so many ads and replays of things we’ve seen 100 times already that could go towards an extra couple of minutes for each match. It would be such a huge fix and improve the quality of each show 10 fold
Eve got what she deserved
When women sign with WWE, they mainly get signed do to looks and not actual talent, There’s only a handful that’s went anywhere in the past 10 years. It just gets sickening to hear how people were praising Eve and Crossed Eyed Kelly for months and now that she’s being looked down on should come to no surprise. They always manage to deliberately be cruel to women unless you know or in a relationship with someone that’s been like Taker or happen to be a widow of a legend. Eve knew damn well before she signed with them just like everyone else for that matter that it was only a matter a time before WWE starts to make women look inferior so for anyone to say it’s screwed up the way she was treated is just being ignorant. Hasn’t history taught you people anything?
you're own stupidity will lead you to your own downfall
by congestedthoughts on Feb 21, 2012 10:34 AM EST reply actions
Eve actually can wrestle a little bit
K^2 cannot at all in any way shape or form
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 21, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Eve is terrible
She’s not as hot as Kelly Kelly and is just as bad of a wrestler. As bad as Kelly Kelly is at running the ropes, Eve is that terrible with her moonsaults.
I didn't say she was good
I said she could wrestle a little bit
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 21, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
again
I didn’t say she was good
Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"Clemson should've stopped turning the ball over" Dana Holgorsen when asked about running up the score in the Orange Bowl
by WVPiratesfan on Feb 21, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Well in that regard...
I think Hugh Jackman and Snookie proved to wrestle a little bit too.
But I got you. LOL
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
Think of it as an abusive relationship.
The victim “knowing better” (and I doubt Eve thought about WWE’s track record of sexism when signing) isn’t justification for the abuse. Just because a company has a track record for treating women like shit it doesn’t make it any less when they maintain those practices. It’s such a sickeningly twisted logic.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Here's a question
Did Eve know about this was going to go down the way it did? If she did, then she is a better actress many give credit for. Furthermore, if she knew, stop feeling sorry for her. Her job was to get heat, she did. Was Cena an asshole in this instance? yes and no. yes because we all look at poor eve, no because we think poor zack
But it doesn’t matter in the end because the segment was trainwreck city
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
I don't feel sorry for Eve, as much as I feel annoyed by the fucked up angle
I just resent this sexist “she deserved it/she had it coming” argument. And I don’t lame Ever for her involvement in the angle. She’s expendable, she’s not in a position to challenge problematic angles. Cena, however, is, so he’s bearing the brunt of the blame.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
which is also where Barrett ended up breaking his arm
Sadly, it wasn’t a broken arm, it was a dislocated elbow, which is both significantly more painful, significantly harder to recover from, and even has a possibility of ending in amputation.
Whaaaat?
Ending in amputation? Is this the 1600’s? If medical science in this day and age can fix and ACL/MCL tear and have players back on the field in less then a year, I’m pretty sure they can fix a dislocated elbow.
I'm big, I'm white, I'm Irish, and G*d damnit people like me!
by C. J. Bradford on Feb 21, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Well, yeah maybe
But he was rushed straight to the hospital. I don’t think amputation would be the end game in this situation
I'm big, I'm white, I'm Irish, and G*d damnit people like me!
by C. J. Bradford on Feb 21, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
The one arm barrage?
I'm big, I'm white, I'm Irish, and G*d damnit people like me!
by C. J. Bradford on Feb 21, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'll take it
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Hey didn't Martin Riggs just hit his shoulder on the filing cabinet to fix that thing?
Lethal Weapon reference sorry
"80 percent of this thread is rangerjae's sig". -Jim Margulus 6/16/11
That was a dislocated shoulder.
The difference between dislocating your shoulder and dislocating your elbow is the difference between dislocating your dick and dislocating your balls.
Guys, I spoke with Rachel, and she said that
Barrett isn’t actually getting his arm chopped off.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
I think
and this didn’t come off too well. But what I was getting from the Eve breakdown was that it was phony. Cena has supposedly seen her cry and scream for her life (what her involvement with Kane is has not been disclosed) but she just made it clear that all of that was an act.
So when she cries like that now people were suppose to think that she has been caught in her lie and now she is trying to garner sympathy but nobody should fall for it because she just got done telling everyone on TV that all of her previous attempts to garner sympathy was faked in order to manipulate John Cena and Zack Ryder for reasons unknown.
Granted this was poorly done but I saw the intent there.
by Anthony Steven Lewis on Feb 21, 2012 12:55 PM EST reply actions
If Cena wasnt a horrible wrestler, I would be torn over the guy.
Broskie before hoeskie? I was cracking up
Taking the mic and pandering the crowd for the chant? Cringe worthy.
Shooting on the Rock with passion? Got me fired up for the match.
Talking about how he has been “here” every day for the last 5-7 years? Cmon man. The Rock was electrifying the world of sports and entertainment all over the globe, night in and night out, while John Cena was struggling to be accepted at The University of Thuganomics
"Wheres my helmet?" -Tony Romo
Overall, I'd give it a solid C+ as well. If there was better booking, maybe even a B-
I only give it a C- because there was too little wrestling that was actually relevant. That tag-team match? Nope. I like Primo and Epico, but at least give them an actual and credible tag-team to fight with. The Sheamus and Mark Henry match? Why is this on RAW? The Daniel Bryan and Santino match? Eh, Santino is still mostly unfunny and annoying to me, when in a non-strictly comedy role.
The opening promo was pretty awesome. It stretched out a little too long, though. Have Cena say what he said, then leave, and go to commercial break. Sitting there watching Eve crumpled in the ring, people escorting her out, that was just weird. She was a gold digger, and got called out on being a ho; there is nothing problematic with that in and of itself. It’s not completely one sided, since people constantly give HHH shit about gold digging and marrying Stephanie, too.
The Undertaker and HHH promo was alright. I was hoping it would take a little more than just, “Oh, HBK is better than you, Hunter” to get him to agree to the match. We all know HBK is heads and shoulders a better wrestler and entertainer than HHH. But, whatever. Not digging that new music, or the fact that they refuse to acknowledge that Jericho has been wrestling longer than HHH and is one of the “old dogs”.
The battle royal match was better than I expected it to be. There wasn’t a flurry of exits in the first couple of seconds like most of those have. It was timed well. I was a little disappointed with CM Punk at the announcer’s table. Whatever it was, but he wasn’t really as good as he was in times past. Maybe the Barrett injury threw him off.
But, overall, not too bad.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 2:16 PM EST reply actions
"here is nothing problematic with that in and of itself"
Not to flog a dead horse but there is. Really. ‘Creative’ goes out of their way to create a scenario and a flimsy sense of justification, regardless of sense or story progression, whereby it is suddenly okay to publicly shame and degrade a woman, led by the superface of the company.
It’s not okay, ever and you think a “real-life superhero” like Jon Cena would know enough to rise above that, too.
Who wants to save the world? That's what misers do...
by theloupgaroukid on Feb 21, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
No there isn't.
In the context of what ‘creative’ writes on the scripts, I can agree that it wasn’t specifically necessary. But, at the same time, the same can be said for anything that is written and made part of the story. It served it’s purpose and accomplished in-story results. I’m not entirely sure what they were trying to accomplish in the first place with that kiss last week, but Eve as the sacrificial lamb was the easiest scenario to get some of the nuclear heat that was on Cena off of him, which is clearly something they want to do heading to Wrestlemania. Morphing John Cena into Edge is not what they’re looking to do at this moment in time, with him being pushed as the stalwart, always-there-for-you, 24-7/365, “good guy” in his match with the Rock.
In the context of the story, she was very publicly a gold digger. Calling her a ho and getting on her for attempting to use her looks and whatever else to get to bigger places is calling it like it is.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
This is exactly the message they should send.
That if a woman betrays your friend by messing around with you and you find out she just wanted to play you, too, you can insult her by calling her a bitch and a whore and then encourage large crowds to do the same. It’s okay to ruthlessly berate her, because hey, she deserves it, right?
There was a time when a woman would never consider such a vile act because she would be shamed within the community and deemed unworthy of mating by others within her tribe. Any other response is a tacit approval of her act.
New signature coming...but its a process.
Why would I be kidding you?
The obvious heel in the moment is Eve, which is why it was so easy for entire crowd to get behind Cena while he was berating her. In that sense, humanity knows right from wrong, that is part of the beauty of being a fan, the simplistic nature of the storylines makes good and evil a nice dichotomy.
In any event, unchecked female hypergamy is one of the downfalls of our modern culture, and if there were more shame in our society, women would be less likely to engage in these types of behaviors.
New signature coming...but its a process.
by Dionysus2.0 on Feb 21, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Am I the only one who thought Cena's promo on The Rock was lame?
Personally, I think Cena’s reasoning for not liking Rocky is petty. I guess I never realized that once you wrestle for WWE you are supposed to let them own you for life. I suppose I should hate The Rock because he found success outside the wrestling industry.
Apparently, The Rock has writers for his witty retorts. Does that mean everything John Cena does and says is real and was not written by the WWE creative team? I think not. The Rock also has a business manager. Oh my! How dare he!
Another thing I didn’t like was how phony Cena came off. From the past few Cena video packages, I have been told that what I see is what I get with John Cena. So why is he all of a sudden acting like Mr. Thug? I guess I can understand slipping into the accent, but not the way he starting doing his thug strut. Which is the real John Cena? Mr. Wholesome or Mr. Thuganomics? Why the heck has Cena been holding this grudge for seven years? What happened to rising above the hate?
While I’m at it, what was the deal with the ridiculous messages the Cena gym video were trying to get across? Cena lives near the FCW area in Tampa and lets the guys use his gym. Cena is a swell guy. The Rock works out by himself. He is evil.
I understand the dynamic they are trying to get across, but I’m not buying it. It only works if you think the same as Cena. If not, Cena comes across as a huge ignoramus.
by Manolo Has Pizzazz on Feb 21, 2012 5:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I thought that it was kind of dumb that Cena was all "intense"
He was saying things he wasn’t supposed to be saying (yeah right) and was talking all wit a accent, yo.
I find it more lame that he just had this big feud with Kane and addressing fundamentally changing who he is, and all of that, and doesn’t mention it once.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
I totally lost respect for Cena after his segment with Eve.
He repeatedly keeps telling us that he only caters to his fans who, by the way, are little kids, and then he pulls this stunt last night. If you’re trying to be a role model and be against bullying, then you, in no way, call a woman a slut, hoski, skank, bitch, and STD-infested. It makes you out to be a hypocrite. Both Punk and Rock are right about Cena. He is a phony.
~Texas Massacre '09~
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We know WWE is sexist and anyone not named Stephanie McMahon is treated with little to no respect
Was that in regards to on air or off air stuff? Because if it’s the on air stuff Stephanie allowed herself to be referred to as a dirty, disgusting, brutal, bottomfeeding, trashbag Ho on air so many times (and that’s just the segments with Jericho) that I don’t think you can hold her up as some sort of exception.
You know, you're right.
I didn’t even go back far enough to say that Stephanie has that fucked up view of women, too, despite being one. And she’s a fucking mom.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
To be fair all that occured pre-motherhood. McMahon-Helmsly vs. McMahon Leveque (Even if she’s not reffered to as such)… McMahon Leveque dropped the big hair and trashy clothes and does get treated “on air” as something other then a hypersexual temptress.
She did grow up with Vince McMahon as a father
and on the road with a bunch of pro wrestlers. Can’t imagine how that helped shape her view on things.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Not even kidding
I actually thought this was the best raw ive seen in years, the whole john cena destroyed eve didn’t phase me, i thought it was brilliant, if she gets future endevored, that sucks but other then that, i thought john cena was absolutely amazing tonight. Insanely entertaining The battle royal wasnt amazingly well thought, i reckon they could of made jerichos number one contender spot mean more. but im looking forward to what happens between them, as well as long and laurenitis
all up i loved this raw, paves the way for a fucking insane wrestlemania, Taker vs HHH, cm punk vs Jericho, cena vs rock and although i still find it dull for now, sheamus vs Byran,

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