WWE: Chris Jericho returns to Raw as mystery man and cuts a brilliant heel non-promo promo
by Geno Mrosko on Jan 3, 2012 12:13 AM EST
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A mouthful, I know, but what Chris Jericho did last night (Jan. 2, 2012) in his big return to WWE on Monday Night Raw as the mystery return man was utterly and completely brilliant.
We were teased for six weeks straight with creepy, cryptic videos that teased an ominous force coming back to wreak havoc on WWE and all those who reside within it. There was nothing nice about these teasers. They pushed a message of destruction, not one of cheer and glee.
So when Jericho came out and the crowd at the FedEx Forum in Memphis, Tennessee, went nuts for him, he had to find a way to make them despise him. But he didn't want to do so in a way so often done before. He wasn't going to take the easy way out and get himself some cheap heat by bagging on the city or going after a top babyface star.
No, old Y2J had a new innovative way of pissing us off making us dislike him: he ruined his own return.
That's no small feat. There was weeks worth of hype, enough speculation on the Internet to fill dirt sheets all day and night, and every single clue seemed to lead back to Jericho. He played it off as best he could on Twitter, always working his fans, but all along we suspected it was him.
And we wanted it to be him because nearly all of us have craved his presence on WWE TV. He would save us just like he did back in 2007, just like he did back in 1999. That's why the cheers were so loud when he revealed himself. We waited for him to break the wall down and just as soon as he did, we were awaiting to greet him with open arms.
His arms were just as open as ours, it seemed. Jericho embraced us with a fervor not seen before, slapping hands with ringside fans and taking in the love. He was marking out just as hard as we were. But then our happiness at his presence subsided and we waited for his words. How was this going to be the end of the world as we know it?
The answer never came. Because Jericho never stopped acting like a mark for himself. And that was the brilliance of it all. He never once spoke into the microphone. He just continued celebrating until we turned on him. Because what kind of pompous ass ruins his own return by marking out longer than the fans do?
Chris freaking Jericho, the ultimate troll who took his Twitter troll job live on Raw, that's who.
He got you, Cagesiders. He got me, too. From seasoned smart marks to casual fans alike, he drew us in with love and turned it into hate within just a few minutes without ever saying a word.
Here's what I wrote in the Raw live blog while he was working his magic. You can read me turn in real time after the jump.
Jericho is back.
He looks like he's in great shape. His belly doesn't look as pushed out as usual, at least from the few glances at it I could get. He's really playing this up. Slapping hands with everyone ringside while his music plays.
Finally, his music stops and he grabs the mic. The crowd goes quiet but he yells, "COME ON, YEAH!"
The crowd starts chanting one more match, then Y2J, then it gets all messed up.
He keeps going and I'm starting to think he's stalling. Is Undertaker supposed to be coming out now and they've messed up the timing? He's going way too long here without saying anything and acting goofy.
He refuses to speak and just keeps celebrating around the ring. I think I'm starting to hear boos. I know I would be booing at this point.
He's doing the schtick where he points to one side of the crowd and they go nuts, then points to the other so they can go nuts. Periodic chants break out but Memphis isn't exactly jumping here.
He goes to talk and then drops the mic and starts celebrating again.
What the hell is this?
Either this was planned, which is what I'm thinking, or he's being a gigantic mark for himself and can't help but revel in the few cheers he's still getting.
He's now at the top of the ramp and still running around asking for cheers. Dude, I'm starting to hate your guts.
He stands at the top smiling and I'm really freaking confused here. The videos were creepy and talked about the end of the world as we know it. He just came out and cheesed everywhere.
Emphasis added.
He had me in eager anticipation, then he trolled me, which pissed me off and made me hate him when just minutes before I was happy as could be that he was back.
It was a truly masterful performance.
It's also brilliant because it makes us wonder where we go from here. Obviously the world isn't over as we know it because nothing really happened. The suspense of who is returning is gone, sure, but its been replaced by just what exactly the man who returned, Jericho, is going to do now.
And to that end, he drew me in again. Because I can't wait to see what he does next week.
Can you?
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I was trying to find a video of his return on Youtube, and could only find it in Spanish
I don’t know why I find it funny, since that’s how you pronounce ‘J’ in Spanish, but they called him “Y2Yay”.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 12:24 AM EST reply actions
They have the video up on WWE.com
http://vids.wwe.com/14477/raw-chris-jericho-returns-to-wwe
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
So is there a woman that’s going to be part of this destruction he is going to create within the WWE or is it something bigger like another McMahon-Helmsley era? Does the girl in all those videos refer to the return of an imposing force that would control the destiny of the the future like say Steph? Was the girl just there to give the message that he (Jericho) is making his return to some how take over and destroy all that is the WWE? I’m anxious to see what’s to become of this. I really hope they don’t try and do some kind of new NWO?
you're own stupidity will lead you to your own downfall
by congestedthoughts on Jan 3, 2012 12:34 AM EST reply actions
I honestly think its all part of the troll job. People are going to keep analyzing the videos when none of it really has meaning
by Buckeye Brawler on Jan 3, 2012 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
If we’re to believe the word from the dirt sheets, those promos were made before the deal was sealed with Jericho, they just wanted to get the hype machine rolling faster. While they might cover it later on, it’s conceivable that they just ignore it.
The dirt sheets likely got it wrong
Even if the papers weren’t signed, both parties definitely knew they had a deal.
haha that was terrible
I’ll be in CC, TX next monday, hope he actually does something
I was on the phone with mybuddy
I marked out.. Love the “he marked out more than anyone else did” Perfect.
Well done Jericho
Pissing people off only works if people want to see what you do next.
Who wants to see a match by a boring guy?
But Jericho isn't boring.
And I’m sure most of the people who have memories of events that go back beyond a year know that.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
I know that.
But the fact that Jericho is deliberately acting boring doesn’t make it any less boring. Why would I want to see what he does next if he’s deliberately trying to be unwatchable just because he had good matches and angles in the past? There’s nothing exciting about what Jericho is doing right now.
It was so bizarre that I want to know his motives.
And for me, Jericho’s earned the benefit of the doubt.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Jericho will probably have some good matches, assuming he doesn’t carry his “boringness” into the ring as some sort of ECW-Cactus Jack style ploy, but his efforts to make the crowd boo him through boring them will harm the business he does and the enthusiasm the audience has for his matches.
umm, it really won't
Jericho is much, much smarter than you give him credit for. He knows what he’s doing and he knows what will work.
It was glorious.
I think, to a lot of people, Jericho’s return was a foregone conclusion, but this was so unexpected and facetious. Hilariously awesome stuff.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
I can proudly say that he didn't get me. :)
He was REALLY douchebagging it up. He sees the hate that super-face John Cena gets and I figured that he wanted to get in on that action.
You too, huh?
I still love Jericho myself. He’s perma-over, and now he’s demonstrated the level of overness wrestlers would kill to have (and the same kind of overness Taker and Trips demonstrated last year with their wordless promo).
and let’s face it, the guy has a wonderful sense of humor, especially about himself. I can’t think of anyone else who could be or play at being a mark for himself and not piss people off on the X-Pac level.
Time to spread a little chaos...
Really?
Do we really believe this was as shockingly brilliant as it’s being described here, or are we simply trying, hard as we might, to cover up the utter disappointment that we’ve all come to know from the Wwe? The build up, which we know they’ve mastered over the years, was beyond brilliant and had everyone guessing until the very end, but this just seemed weird and a complete botch. I realized that part of the problem is unrealistic expectations (Is it going to be Sting? Lesnar? Shane or Steph?) and let downs are a dime a dozen in this business, but this was bad.
No offense, but you're missing it
because Jericho is absolutely trolling you right now. He’s really, really good at it. You are supposed to feel disappointed; that’s what he was going for. You kinda want to see him get punched in the face now, don’t you.
This article is pathetic
Please read my fan post in direct repines to this
You kinda want to see him get punched in the face now, don’t you.
If Jericho getting punched in the face will be as boring as his promo on RAW, no.
Says the man who hates everything good about wrestling.
I’m sad for you. :(
by Razztopia on Jan 3, 2012 4:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know as much about good wrestling as Newt Gingrich knows about following Supreme Court decisions.
by *Asterisk* on Jan 3, 2012 4:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You know as much about good wrestling as Ron Paul does about why the Civil Rights Act is constitutional.
So there!
But seriously, your opinions suck.
by Razztopia on Jan 3, 2012 5:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't you claim to not even watch Raw, Smackdown, or any of the PPVs?
I find it hard to take your opinions that seriously if that’s the case.
by hfl2013 on Jan 3, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That doesn't mean I don't watch various unusually good, or unusually bad segments on various streaming sites.
I follow the recaps pretty much every week, and have seen hundreds of hours of wrestling both good and bad in my life. I just have no desire to watch the endless filler segments and pointless parity booking WWE pulls every week.
An angle requires you to be invested in it
You can’t be invested in the characters, the emotions, the story, etc. when you’re reading recaps and watching bits and pieces here and there. With Mark Henry for example, it would be hard to look at him as anything other than Sexual Chocolate if that’s the last time you actually watched him on a week-week basis. How are you going to buy into the monster heel version of him if you don’t see the promos he’s cutting on a week-week basis before he became the World Heavyweight Champion? How are you going to believe he’s a credible champion if you only read that he pinned Orton after the fact.
With the promos on Raw for Jericho and the subsequent return, a huge part of the brilliance is how well the promos were done and how the payoff that we’ve all been waiting for is nothing more than another puzzling promo though you don’t know realize it initially.
I know Jericho was deliberatley being boring, but it doesn't work.
You can be comically awful at something and still make it work, but trying to bore people to the point where you get heel heat is an awful idea. Regardless if it’s intentional or a trick, why would anyone care about someone if they’re being boring?
People won’t care about the upcoming matches of the “boring” guy getting his ass kicked, if that worked, Lance Storm wouldn’t have bombed out in his WWE run.
Larry Zbyszko had this exact skill down to an art form.
Hey, maybe that’s something else Z can sue Jericho for!
Also, the difference between Storm and Jericho
is that Storm didn’t have a personality, really. Jericho does – he’s an over-the-top ’80s babyface who marks out for his own entrance in the year 2012.
i didnt think this day was gonna come but i effin agree with ***
it was dissapointing period
i dont care how much you analize the performance and say it was genious and brilliant and how awesomely he trolled everyone
things by their name, and whats boring its boring, whats dissapointing is dissapointing, i dont care if it was a play or it was legit, it was dissapointing and lame and thats the feeling i had and still have
worst thing is, i dont even hate him, it didnt work for me, i just feel dissapointed and kinda dont care whatever happens with him anymore, which makes me wonder, how is this good for bussines? he can be one hell of a performer by trolling us like that but how is it good for the bussines? not everyone hates, some people just stop caring
To be fair though, there isn’t much you like about current WWE booking it seems. Ha. Although, if you’d like, I’d be curious what you do like in terms of angles running now.
by 8bitDan on Jan 3, 2012 1:58 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
The last angles WWE ran that I liked:
Undertaker vs. Triple H, Wrestlemania XXVII
John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money in the Bank
Other than those two matches and the angles that led up to them, I can’t think of a single angle coupled with a match WWE ran that I liked.
Not to say that WWE hasn’t run some good matches in the past year, but the booking surrounding said matches were awful (Del Rio vs. Christian, Orton vs. Christian, CM Punk vs. Triple H, CM Punk vs. Dolph Ziggler, Bryan Danielson’s entire WWE run). WWE also managed to get a pretty good angle going with Mark Henry as an utterly dominant heel champion before the awful ending, but Henry’s matches were some of the crappiest matches of the year.
I see some potential in certain angles WWE could run in the future, but the only angle WWE’s going to run that I’m certain will be good is the upcoming Undertaker vs. Triple H match. Everything else they’ll do I have no reason to believe will be good.
"WWE also managed to get a pretty good angle going with Mark Henry" - Asterisk
by Kyle Rancourt on Jan 3, 2012 3:28 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I never said that the Mark Henry angle wasn't well run.
What I’ve been saying all these weeks is that Mark Henry doesn’t deserve to have a good angle written for him. He’s the worst worker on the roster, he’s nothing special as a promo, and too heavy for 90% of the people on the roster to perform a lot of their offense on, so carrying him is almost impossible.
It would’ve been great if they gave the angle to at least a half dozen other guys, but the fact that they gave it to Henry is what infuriates me.
Holy shit dude
I was joking. We get it. You hate Henry. That’s fine. I don’t want to debate this anymore because it’s a circular argument. You don’t need to go off into a tirade anytime anyone pokes fun at you in relation to Mark Henry. Relax a little.
by Kyle Rancourt on Jan 3, 2012 3:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s fine. I don’t want to debate this anymore because it’s a circular argument.
A circular argument would be saying that Mark Henry is a bad wrestler, the fact that he is a bad wrestler is proof of this.
What I’ve been saying is that Mark Henry is a bad wrestler because he gasses quickly, his offense is boring as fuck, his matches are plodding, and whenever his matches aren’t the worst on the card is based entirely around stuff his opponent does.
If you ever came up with a worthwhile counterargument, I would.
The fact that you have to resort to this will just make me strike you down even harder.
Ok, fine.
A circular argument would be saying that Mark Henry is a bad wrestler, the fact that he is a bad wrestler is proof of this.
The fact that he’s a bad wrestler is proof that he’s a bad wrestler? Really?
This is not fact. This is your opinion. A circular argument is one where two sides are entrenched in their lines of thinking and are extremely unlikely to change their stance.
You think Mark Henry is one of the worst wrestler ever.
I, and many others, don’t.
You continue to say Mark Henry sucks.
I, and many others, disagree.
The problem with this whole fucking scenario is you’re acting like a complete holier-than-thou asshat. Your opinion is your opinion, it’s not fact. People can like things that you don’t and vice versa. In this situation, you thinking Mark Henry sucks isn’t wrong. This is your opinion of him, and you’ve given a lot of reasons as to why that is your opinion. That’s fine. I brought it up again as a fucking joke. I didn’t want to rehash this because every time anyone tries to talk to you, you’re an asshole. I figured by now, you’d have gotten over it and gained the ability to laugh at yourself a little. Apparently not.
So go ahead and “strike me down even harder”. You’re not strengthening any argument you may or may not have. You’re just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.
by Kyle Rancourt on Jan 3, 2012 5:11 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This is not fact. This is your opinion. A circular argument is one where two sides are entrenched in their lines of thinking and are extremely unlikely to change their stance.
Aside from the fact that you used my example of what a circular argument would be as proof that I’m using a circular argument, the fact that you didn’t even bother to look up the actual definition of a circular argument when we’re arguing with each other on the Internet is a far bigger defimation of your writing skills and intelligence than any insult I could sling your way.
Definitions. For. Circular. Arguments. Aren’t that hard to find. A circular argument that assumes what it’s attempting to prove. Back to your original point:
A circular argument is one where two sides are entrenched in their lines of thinking and are extremely unlikely to change their stance.
This isn’t even close to the definition of a circular argument. Good debaters use evidence and tests to support their arguments. So far I’ve pointed out that Mark Henry matches are slow, his offense is extremely limited, he gasses quickly, he’s impossible for most of his opponents to lift off the ground, he’s yet to have a great match which justifies pushing him ahead of the entire Smackdown roster, and the buyrates from the PPV’s he’s headlined have been awful.
You’ve yet to cite evidence as to why Henry’s good. The only defenses you’ve mustered have been:
The problem with this whole fucking scenario is you’re acting like a complete holier-than-thou asshat.
The problem with this scenerio is that you’ve yet to come up with an argument as to why Henry’s good other than childish name calling.
Your opinion is your opinion, it’s not fact. People can like things that you don’t and vice versa.
If you like it so much, come up with some facts to support it. Show me the great Mark Henry matches, show me how he’s beneficial to buyrates, show me how he’s better than half a dozen other guys WWE could’ve pushed. Show me his merch sales figures. The “well that’s just your opinion” defense is the single most weak ass defense any human being could muster.
I didn’t want to rehash this because every time anyone tries to talk to you, you’re an asshole.
Real mature.
I figured by now, you’d have gotten over it and gained the ability to laugh at yourself a little. Apparently not.
The fact that you’ve posted these long winded, impotent non arguments in a futile attempt to dent my argument indicates that you’re not over it. The french fries shouldn’t complain that the corned beef sandwich is too fattening.
So go ahead and "strike me down even harder". You’re not strengthening any argument you may or may not have. You’re just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.
This is one of the most untintentionally hilarious sentences I’ve ever read, the irony of you saying, “I’m not strengthening any arguments I may or may not have. I’m just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative,” when you’ve yet to post anything resembling an actual argument is so punishingly retarded it could club an elephant to death.
Kindly shove your fingers repeatedly into a car door if this is the best you can muster, your bones pressing against the keys is tantamount to defecating on the grave of Christopher Latham Sholes.
Please never watch wrestling again if you honestly think this.
From a perspective of natural talent, I wouldn’t argue that Henry and Punk are that far apart. Punk has the natural athletic ability of a man with two left feet, but what separates the two is that Punk made the effort to get in great cardiovascular shape so he can perform his moves with a good sense of timing, so his matches actually build to a climax, and even if the moves themselves are horrifically unpolished (the Diving Elbow) he doesn’t gas out or botch when performing them.
The fact that anybody who knows anything about wrestling would think Henry is a better worker than all but the bottom barrel of wrestling talent is honestly distressing.
Punk has the weakest offense ever, forgets to sell as much as the hated Cena, and has shitty timing.
Asterisk, I love your posts because they are all terrible, but let’s get this straight: You don’t love wrestling. You love one narrow type of wrestling that makes you seem “smart,” so you drop a few NWA names and names from Japan (and you think Morishima is a good big man wrestler, bless your soul).
Now, while I don’t think Punk sucks (I would call him about average, above-average if he’s put with a guy that he has chemistry with like Cena or with a superworker like Daniel Bryan), I definitely think Henry works his big man style way better than whatever the hell it is Punk is working.
I just let you know how wrong your assertion about Henry is in order to distress you because outside of El Gigante-level crappy, it’s all about preference of style and what attributes you care about. I guess for you, the fact that Mark Henry is fat bothers you as much as Punk yelling “I’m flying!” in a hipsterish, douchey, ironic way before doing a top-rope move bothers me.
by Razztopia on Jan 3, 2012 3:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Punk has the weakest offense ever, forgets to sell as much as the hated Cena, and has shitty timing.
I’ll give you Punk’s sloppy offense, but Punk is fantastic at both selling and timing, I don’t even know how you can begin to think he’s bad at this.
(and you think Morishima is a good big man wrestler, bless your soul).
Only Herman Cain could be dumb enough not to think this.
I definitely think Henry works his big man style way better than whatever the hell it is Punk is working.
Punk has the ROH mixed with a touch of AJPW and WWE style down better than anyone I can think of, the fact that he’s of such limited natural athletic ability makes this feet all the more impressive.
Mark Henry’s too slow and gasses too quickly to have a style. I’ve seen two Mark Henry matches that didn’t make me want a Vicodin laced cigarette, Henry vs. Show and Henry vs. Mysterio. Both matches don’t hold up to the standard of almost anyone else, were watchable entirely on their brisk pace and the efforts of Show/Mysterio, and the Mysterio match isn’t even in the top 50 of Mysterio matches, it isn’t even as good as the Benoit/Kane match from 2004.
the fact that Mark Henry is fat bothers you as much as Punk yelling "I’m flying!" in a hipsterish, douchey, ironic way before doing a top-rope move bothers me.
If being fat bothered me, I wouldn’t be such a huge fan of Triple H, Mick Foley (within a reasonable weight), Dr. Death, and Morishima, you simpleton.
I was going to respond in more detail
but really, everything that you said is just terrible except for Dr. Death being good and the Herman Cain knock. You like Triple H, too. That explains things quite a bit.
Also, Morishima is a good big man working a little man’s style worker. He’s not a good big man. If you liked good big men, you would probably actually like Henry, who is probably the best brick wall in the business at this point and who knows what to do when.
But it’s okay. You keep liking whatever it is that you like. Enjoy that stuff. I don’t know how you’ll manage, but enjoy it.
Triple H sells better and has a better sense of timing than anyone in the business.
Often, his matches are hampered by his weight and ever expanding injuries, but the fact that he’s been able to disguise how fucked up his body is to the fans for so long, and find ways to carry lumbering sacks of potatoes like Kevin Nash and the Great Khali to watchable matches makes him a strong contender for best worker of his generation, even if he hasn’t had as many classics as men with as much natural talent as Danielson and HBK.
Hey, if plodding offense, off-and-on selling, the inability to make other workers look strong in defeat
and one year in the business that everyone thought he was great because Mick Foley bumped his ass off for him and then guys like The Rock and Chris Benoit were able to carry him to watchable matches = “strong contender for best worker of his generation” in your eyes, that’s your opinion.
For me personally, when I want to watch a Harley Race match except actually good, I just go to YouTube and do so.
What sort of parrallel universe do you live in where Mark Henry is accetable?
Henry isn’t fit to polish Triple H’s ring boots. Triple H has been in a lot of shitty matches, but unlike Henry, Triple H has had plenty of good and great ones, a cardiovascular system, and a sense of timing.
I'm just saying, you can have your opinion.
Hey, there are a lot of great Triple H matches like the one where Mick Foley bumped into thumbtacks for him and…and…hmm…
Like the one where Batista had the best HiaC match since 2000.
Like the one where Jeff Hardy worked a match with psychology.
Like the one where a man who hadn’t worked a match in months had the runner up for MOTY.
Like (at the time) the greatest match in Wrestlemania history.
Like the first great match in the Streak’s history.
Like a great WM main event with John Cena, ruined only by a shitty finish.
Like the hour long broadway on RAW.
Like the three star HiaC match with Big Daddy Cool.
Like the Rock’s first good matches.
I understand hating the nepotism and the necrophilia, but suggesting that he only got by on a guy bumping for him would be funny if you weren’t actually serious.
HHH/Batista was masturbatory crap.
Rey had the only good singles matches with Batista.
Jeff Hardy worked far better matches with Umaga on RAW. For that matter, Hardy and Nitro/Morrison worked better matches than any of the HHH matches.
I actually don’t know what you are referring to here.
HHH/Benoit/HBK didn’t do anything for me, but I put that more on WWE Triple Threat style, which is pretty much one-on-one with the third guy laying around. The best example of that style, IMO, is Taker/Rock/Angle from the PPV before Summerslam ’02.
HHH/Taker was awful. Truly awful. HHH doesn’t even know how to do WM Main Event Epic Style properly. Also, the fact that you think that’s the first.
HHH/Cena was average at best. The match itself was poorly paced. Cena and HBK worked FAR better together.
Wait, what hour-long draw was that?
HHH/Nash HIAC blew dicks. Just awful. The worst HIAC not named “Kennel in a Cell” or that didn’t involve a hanging.
The Rock’s first good matches were with Owen Hart, dudesauce.
In fact, HHH still wasn’t really over until Foley took the tacks for him. People bitch about Cena, but he still isn’t as forced down our throats as “Triple H, Main Event Ace” was. I guess you bough into it. Like I said, enjoy your opinion. You are entitled to it.
Trying to argue that Henry is a better worker than HHH or Punk seems like an impossible task.
If Henry was such a good worker, why didn’t anybody notice his good work in the 12 or so years prior to this summer?
Uh, they did.
Henry’s been actively good since he was feuding with Kurt Angle in ’06.
It’s just that it takes longer for some of the more jaded websites to come around on a guy who has improved. You can find long-time Henry fans in lots of places, though. DVDVR, for one.
Henry's match with Kurt Angle in '06 was awful.
By far the worst match of Kurt Angle’s career, I honestly can’t think of another Kurt Angle match that is anywhere near that bad, and I wouldn’t even say it’s in the bottom five of the worst Mark Henry matches.
I honestly don’t know anybody who thinks that Mark Henry is a better worker than Punk or HHH. I would say that every single match that Asterisk listed above from HHH is better than any match Mark Henry has ever been a part of, with the exception of the Nash HIAC (which I can’t comment on because I’ve never seen it in its entirety, though I’ve always heard terrible things about it). But there are some incredible matches on the that list. Could you come up with a similarly long list of your favorite Henry PPV matches? I’m just curious to see what those matches are.
If you get excitement out of watching Henry wrestle then that’s cool, we can respectfully disagree with each other. Obviously I don’t enjoy watching him wrestle and so I strongly side with Asterisk on this one. I think WWE should have given the monster push to someone who I prefer to watch instead of Henry.
So what’s your take on why Henry hasn’t been used on Wrestlemania much in recent years? He has the size, and if WWE views him as a good worker then why have they relegated him to being in the dark match battle royal in 3 of the last 4 Manias? I can imagine the Henry supporters must have been outraged by that in the same way that I would be outraged if Punk was left off of those cards.
but Punk is fantastic at both selling and timing, I don’t even know how you can begin to think he’s bad at this.
Punk no sold all of Swagger and Ziggler’s legwork last week for the sake of hitting his usual spots.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Swagger and Ziggler are glorified jobbers.
There’s no way Vince McMahon would let Punk get away with selling for those two the entire match.
Ziggler is a glorified jobber.
White is black.
Up is down.
Left is right.
War is peace.
Slavery is freedom.
Ignorance is strength.
Ziggler loses all his TV matches.
He never has any important PPV matches, won the world title in the most pathetic way possible, and dropped his title to Zach Ryder.
It’s sad that one of the best workers in the company is a glorified jobber, but it doesn’t make it any less true. Just look at Swagger and Danielson for further examples.
Yeah, like when he was U.S. Champion for a year and actually made the belt worth something.
Or like when he lost on RAW this week.
You’re right, as usual. Your method of just changing the facts as you see fit so that they can fit your weird outlook worked again!
Oh, Asterisk. You are truly a visionary. Congrats to you, sir!
Ziggler had had 77 matches in 2011, he lost 48, 3 ended in a draw.
Those aren’t the figures of somebody who’s placed any higher than glorified jobber on the WWE totem pole.
These figures aren’t that hard to get. But I shouldn’t even need to show you these. Ziggler is almost never given a meaningful match against anyone, routinely lost clean while holding the belt, and it never takes much effort by almost anyone to put him down.
He’s a fantastic wrestler, but WWE books him like a glorified jobber, don’t pretend otherwise.
You just cited W/L records to prove how a wrestler is positioned.
If I could point and laugh at you, I would.
Hey, champ, how many matches did Punk win last year compared to how many he lost? I guess since Rey loses lots of matches, he must not be a main-event/upper mid-card guy either.
Truly, out of the many stupid things that you have said, this may possibly top them all.
Hey, champ, how many matches did Punk win last year compared to how many he lost?
Punk was a glorified jobber from the moment his feud with Rey Mysterio ended in 2010 until the moment he beat Rey Mysterio on PPV in 2011. He had 28 matches up until Capitol Punishment in 2011, and he lost 21.
Of the 8 matches he had starting from Capitol Punishment to Money in the Bank, he won 5. He became a main eventer.
Granted, it wouldn’t have been enough to make Punk a star had he not been good enough on the mic to distract the audience from how low he was on the card, but only a select few guys are like that. If you don’t believe that wins and losses are indicative of the way WWE places guys on the card, I don’t even know how you figured out how to press the power button on your computer.
Meh from watching other sports
I’ve realized that losses don’t pull nearly as much weight as you’re giving them credit for. Just look at Nate Diaz, Johnny Hendricks, and the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Nate Diaz hasn’t won more than two fights in a row in three years, no one takes him seriously. Not to mention that he was in the most competitive division in UFC up until his return to lightweight in September.
The Timberwolves haven’t been relevant since Kevin Garnett was traded to the Celtics, not that they were ever considered important, because they lost seven out of their eight playoff attempts in the first round.
Johnny Hendricks only lost once, but that was three fights ago, and he’s in the most competitive division in UFC, there’s a reason that loss hurt him.
How did losing not affect people’s perception of those guys?
Even though Nate went 2-2 this year, albeit his two losses were to upper mid-level WWs, his win over Cerrone has him one or two fights away from a title shot.
After back to back wins over the Mavs and Spurs, and good showings in their three losses, the Timberwolves are considered a tough out for anybody in the league and a must-watch team.
Despite losing fairly recently (a year ago), Hendricks is now “in the mix.”
Losses matter, but they’re not that big of a deal.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Nate dropped out of the WW division to move to the much less competitive lighweight division. Sure, four wins in a row will help him be a title contender, even if it won’t be a guarenteed shot, but for wins in a row for any UFC fighter puts them in title contention. Not that it’ll matter, because everyone knows Nate isn’t winning his next fight anyway.
The Timberwolves might make the playoffs, but they’ll likely just lose the first round like they did every year they made the playoffs, especially now that they’re still in rebuilding mode after losing their best player.
Hendricks is “in the mix” because he won three fights in a row in the UFC’s most competitive division, knocked Jon Fitch out in 30 seconds, and he’s one of the few relevant people who hasn’t faced St. Pierre, that would put anybody in the mix.
Wins and losses always matter, just as your examples indicated.
I didn't say wins/losses didn't matter,
I said that losses, though they obviously matter, aren’t as detrimental as you make them out to be, particularly with regards to fan perception.My examples illustrate that :
Nate – Despite losing two in a row earlier in the year, he’s viewed as a viable title contender now. And I would argue that LW is deeper than WW.
Twolves – Even though they’re 2-3 to start the season and coming off a season where they had the worst record in the league, they’re considered a strong team by pundits.
Hendricks – His loss to Story only a year ago didn’t derail his career at all, especially in light of his recent success. And GSP’s out until 2013 so that point’s moot.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
I don't really see how
being a title holder, and defending that title on PPVs doesn’t count as meaningful PPV matches. I don’t see how losing the title against Zack Ryder- one of the most over wrestlers on the roster right now, and one of the best selling wrestlers on the roster right now- is a strike against him, either.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
It's the U.S. title.
Do I even need to go into how little the titles that aren’t the World Titles matter?
Not even two years ago, Bret Hart was U.S. champion, which he won clean via submission.
Not even a year ago, Sheamus won the title as a punishment and official demotion from the main event after suffering clean losses to Evan Bourne, the John Morrison, and Mark Henry. His Wrestlemania match was cut from the card to make room for a Dark Match won by the Great Khali.
In the “prestigious” U.S. title reign of Dolph Ziggler, he suffered 13 clean losses via pinfall or submission in singles matches alone while champion, including losses to the likes of Alex Reiley and John Morrison.
Sure, he’s a great wrestler, and sure, Zach Ryder is over, but just because they have good qualities doesn’t mean that WWE hasn’t been booking both those guys to be total jobbers for the past year. Ryder is somewhat starting to come out of that crater, but Ziggler is still a long ways away from anything resembling not being a jobber.
I'm pretty sure Hart didn't win that clean in the US title match
I only vaguely remember that match with the Miz, but since he doesn’t wrestle and only does the sharpshooter, there is no way that was a clean win.
Sure, Miz gets hit with the Hart attack, but not only did Miz fail to win with Chris Jericho in his corner, he doesn’t even last a second in the sharpshooter, and doesn’t even attempt to make it to the ropes despite wrestling a man so crippled he can’t even fall over on his back.
So Miz gets a huge dropkick off the ropes from Tyson Kidd
and then eats a Hart Attack. He’s lying on the mat practically unconscious when Bret Hart puts the sharpshooter on him. That is anything but a clean finish.
He lost in two minutes with Chris Jericho in his corner to a man with a cerebral cortex held together by the hopes and dreams of the nation of Croatia who’s old enough to have clear memories of seeing the Moon Landing live.
Yeah, he got hit by the Hart Attack and a dropkick, but that shouldn’t have been enough to put him down in those circumstances via submission if the U.S. title mattered at all. If the U.S. title mattered at all, giving the belt to a 53 year old in a two minute match wouldn’t have cropped up as an idea in any circumstance.
Jericho was knocked out of the ring
and he got hit with a tag team’s finisher after taking a huge drop kick and then being put in one of the biggest submissions in the WWE’s history. It doens’t matter how old and broken down Hart is because the WWE has never allowed that to be part of the story with him.
If you want to talk about the legitimacy of giving Bret Hart a US title reign at all, that’s a separate issue. My issue was with you rewriting history in saying that Hart had won that match clean and that The Miz somehow inexcusably tapped out to the sharpshooter as if he wasn’t just hit pretty hard.
It doesn't matter if a bayonette pierced Miz in the ballsack.
Relevant belt holders don’t lose via submission to crippled old men in two minutes under any circumstance.
If this is your belief, which based on your posts here I'm led to believe it is,
then its a dumb stance to take. This isn’t Triple H-Undertaker at Wrestlemania. A wrestler doesn’t 95% of the time doesn’t kick out of a finisher. A wrestler also does not get out of the sharpshooter 95% of the time. A wrestler 99%* of the time does not kick out of a finisher while being taken on 2 on 1. Put all the numbers together and you get the fact that in wrestling history, you almost will never see a scenario for the wrestler to not lose like The Miz did if that’s what the booking has led up to.
*That extra 1% btw is the times Cena has done it.
It wasn't like that at all.
Miz was facing a man old enough to have gotten a college diploma before fathering him, who can’t even take a bump without risking death, and he still lost in two minutes via submission within seconds of being locked in the sharpshooter.
It shouldn’t have mattered if Miz was being pistol whipped, there is no reason anyone holding a belt with even a scrap of value should job in two minutes to a man in their early 50’s in two minutes for any reason. If such a thing happens, the belt is meaningless.
Just because the belts aren't as prestigious as they once were doesn't mean the matches were meaningless
A meaningless match, that’s the random Shamus-Swagger match that was made on the spur of the moment at TCL a few weeks ago. Regardless of who wins, it doesn’t matter; the match doesn’t matter, there are no storyline implications. The U.S. Title, and the Tag Team titles are certainly less prestigious than they once were- Ziggler and Ryder’s feud for the belt over the course of four, five months or so certainly helped bring some respectability back to it- but that doesn’t make them meaningless, or matches involving them without any implication.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Regardless of who wins, it doesn’t matter; the match doesn’t matter, there are no storyline implications.
What are the storyline implications of winning the Tag belts or midcard belts at this point?
The people holding those belts aren’t placed any higher on the cards than people not holding them, and in many cases, are placed several tiers lower than many of the guys without the belts.
If a guy can win a belt and have it be considered a demotion from where they once were, i.e. Cena winning the tag belts and Sheamus winning the U.S. title, it’s worse than not being champion at all.
There’s no storyline benefit whatsoever to winning the titles that aren’t the world titles, and in many cases, it’s a huge setback for people to hold those belts. It’s sad that WWE’s booking works that way, but pretending otherwise is nothing more than a doublethink.
They're title belts, and storylines get written around them
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
A) I’m stoked these comment sections are starting to have a little life!
B) asterisk- sorry dude. I didn’t think my question would spark such debate. Haha. But thanks for answering. It was a good enough response for me.
by 8bitDan on Jan 3, 2012 1:30 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
methinks you should take your own advice.
Please never watch wrestling again
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
Asterisk..is the heel of this site lol
Readings his comments frustrates many of us, but he backs up his pessimism/cynicism well enough.
Though are opinions may never agree I salute you Asterisk..someone has to be the bad guy.
who's the mark?
“Brilliant?”
“Masterful?”
“nearly all of us craved” his return?"
No offense, but the writer has to be the biggest mark for Jericho, who isn’t even a great in-ring performer (his Lion’s flip, or whatever he calls it, has to be one of the lamest closing moves of all time—heck I’d rather watch Eve take 10 minutes to do a flip from the top rope) and his is far from ominous.
Can I nega-rec this?
Jericho not great in-ring? Do you watch wrestling?
Beware my tiny electric fury.
Yeah
I don’t understand saying Jericho isn’t great inside the ring. And saying you would rather watch Eve? That’s just terrible.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
You know the 'writer of this' has a name at the top right?
It’s like you don’t even give a shit and just wanna be negative.
Eve over Jericho?
no offense but you are not very smart.
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
PS
That was one of the most boring minutes of WWE programming in years and almost as bad as JR trying to rap
"AWWW YEAA!" "WHOOOO!"
That was brilliant. I loved it. Jericho is the man. Made us hate him without saying one word.
i dont get why would you hate him for being lame
do you hate daniel bryan for being lame and boring as a world heavyweight champion too? lol
This is pathetic
Please read my fan post in direct response to this. Mrsoko you’ve failed big time. Tis bullshit mark superiority needs to stop, not from you, but the mark mentality that’s invading wrestling. Jericho was boring and disappointing. If being boring and disappointing is brilliant, I will never watch wrestling again.
Dude
you can express your opinion just fine without being a douche. For someone trying to get brought on as a writer on one of the SB combat sites — two of which I’m a manager of — it might be smart for you to stop running your mouth so much. You disagree? Fine. But calling me a mark as a derogatory term isn’t going to get you far. I WANT to be a mark. That’s what makes pro wrestling fun. I’ll go read your FanPost and if it’s anything like the comments I’m seeing from you, I’ll probably end up deleting it. Scale it back a bit.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
I wasnt calling you a mark geno
I was saying the mark mentality of fans in general. I thought that was clear, but guess not.
You mean like the typical mark who will be mad at Jericho for messing up his big return?
That type of mark?
by Razztopia on Jan 3, 2012 3:12 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
this x 1,0000000000
I WANT to be a mark. That’s what makes pro wrestling fun
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
I don’t know how I really feel about this. At first I hated the segment. Then towards the end of it I realized that I got suckered and I appreciated that and thought that was pretty cool. But ultimately getting suckered for the sake of being suckered isn’t why i watch the show. So it depends on how they follow this up. If what he did tonight ends up not being relevant at all to what he does going forward in the story then I would imagine that I would consider this segment more boring than anything else. But I am optimistic when it comes to Y2J and I don’t think he would have returned without bigger plans in mind, so I assume they already have something interesting in the works when it comes to his role going forward and that what he did tonight is just one piece of that plan.
That being said, this segment was memorable and was still better than most of the other junk on tonight’s show. The Kane/Cena stuff at the beginning and end was vomit-worthy. Someone seriously needs to tell Cena to stop it with the awful promos.
Re: Cena/Kane
I don’t think we are the audience. I analogize it to the Warrior/Taker stuff back when I was nine. Adults who saw that probably thought, “A giant Wild West zombie stuffed Warrior in a casket. Was that supposed to be scary? How lame.” I, on the other hand, thought “HOW DID HE STUFF WARRIOR IN THAT CASKET. CAN HE GET AWAY WITH THAT? WHAT THE HELL!”
I think that Cena/Kane is working in the same way. I thought it was amusing in a B-movie sort of way, but I bet if I were twenty years younger, I would have really loved it for what it was.
I did think about that. Maybe if I was younger I would have felt differently. I don’t really know. But yeah, at my current age I don’t really have much interest in angles like this. I wish WWE would focus on creating more believable stories and conflicts.
I get where you are coming from.
I feel like the show is a variety show and that feud is something for the younger ones who are super into Cena. I try to get enjoyment out of those feuds and angles that aren’t for me and really enjoy the stuff that is for me. Cena and Punk and whoever else aren’t programmed for me, but I get the Mark Henry stuff that is or the Christian stuff that is or whatever and I’m happy.
It’s better than a show like RAW in the Attitude Era which was non-stop Crash TV all the time, IMO.
Cena/Kane doesn't even work on the Warrior/Taker level.
I could probably think of at least three dozen medical proccedures I’d rather undergo than watch a Warrior/Taker match, but the main difference between Cena/Kane and Warrior/Taker is that the Warrior/Taker angle was designed to get people behind Warrior, and intimidated by the badass monster he was facing, Cena/Kane doesn’t make anyone want to see a Cena/Kane match because the whole purpose of the angle is to make Cena as unlikeable as possible without giving him a likeable figure to balance out the douchebaggery.
The whole thing is shitballs retarded, and the upcoming Cena/Kane match will likely be much worse than the Warrior/Taker matches.
I don't really see your comparison being correct.
Both are cases of unstoppable faces who come up against monster heels that are creepy/scary/over the top in their meanness. This is a pretty carbon copy sort of feud that Vince likes to run. You have seen it before:
Warrior/Taker
Warrior/Shango
Hogan/Earthquake
And so forth and so forth. You don’t like Cena, but you are in a certain subgroup that Cena isn’t meant for. That’s why you get CM Punk matches and promos. Those are for you.
Even if I was the biggest Cena fan in the world this angle would be terrible.
Cena’s being as unlikeable and pandering as he possibly can be, the announcers are pointing out repeatedly that he’s being pandering and “some people in the Universe” don’t like that. Cena’s always been divisive, but in this angle, he’s actively trying to make the people in his base despise him.
Cena should’ve either stuck with his base, or went full heel, but trying to make both groups not want to see him is idiotic, even by the standards of a company which ran a miscarriage storyline twice.
Somehow, I don't think that you have the insight into what Cena fans would like.
I’ll just take your assessment of how Cena fans feel about this with a truckload of salt.
Cena fans like to ignore the boos he gets, not have WWE acknowledge them.
Cena fans like for him to just pander to them, not try and reach for a demographic who’s long since given up on him in boring as fuck 20 minute promos.
Cena fans don’t want to see pseudo shoot bullshit coming out of Cena’s mouth because it completely fly’s over their heads.
This whole angle has been designed to make people hate Cena, but at the same time hate Kane, why should people care about this angle if both guys are completely unlikeable?
And the seven-year-old Cena fans
just want to see him beat up the scary monster. Those same fans are seen booing The Rock. They hate the weirdo adult fans just as much as the weirdo adult fans hate him.
So yeah, I don’t think you are at all right about how Cena’s base is approaching this angle.
Then why is Cena being as unlikeable as possible in this angle?
Why is WWE drawing attention to the fact that anybody who has pubic hair on their testicles hates Cena rather than just lightly brushing it off?
Why is WWE repeatedly bringing up how inadequate Cena is compared to the Rock?
Why is WWE encouraging people to chant “Cena sucks?”
Why is Cena cutting these long, boring as fuck promos that don’t go anywhere rather than the stuff he did that actually worked with children?
Why is WWE booking Cena to face a heel in spite of all this?
Why did WWE book Cena in a handicap match where he had the advantage?
If WWE wanted to keep the seven-year-olds on Cena’s side, they wouldn’t be doing any of this.
You are asking a bunch of really stupid questions that don't apply.
Kids don’t see wrestling in the weird way you do. They like Cena. That’s pretty much it. I know that you are crossing your fingers and toes hoping that everyone will turn on him, but it’s not going to happen no matter how many non-applicable questions you list here to try and prove otherwise.
Sorry, brah.
Kids like Cena because WWE tells them to like Cena.
Drawing attention to the fact that anyone in possession of an active pituitary gland actively sabotages a pretty good thing that was going on between Cena and the kids. Not to mention that you’ve yet to bring up a single reason why this angle is meant to appeal to Cena fans other than the fact that “he’s Cena.” Bringing up that this angle’s in vain of one of the most godawful angles WWE has ever run (Warrior/Shango) only weakened your argument.
I have little doubt that everyone will turn on Cena because of this angle, but I also have little doubt that WWE will actually pull the trigger on a turn, it’s the worst of both worlds.
No, I did bring it up. You just are a bit slow, no offense.
Let’s try it again.
Overcoming-the-odds babyface vs. heel monster that might just finally bring the good guy down = pretty common type of feud in wrestling that has a track record of success.
I even put it in simple equation form so that you might understand.
This isn't what the feud is at all.
Pandering simpleton the company doesn’t want us to like vs. boring monster who cuts boring promos with hokey effects = suck.
By the way, I heard chocolate rations are going up.
I still think there’s a good chance that Cena will simply go Hulk Cena all over Kane’s ass and just “Rise Above” Kane’s hate and move on to Wrestlemania with nothing at all changed with Cena’s character.
I don't know why anyone thinks this isn't going to happen
There’s a 0% chance they turn John Cena a heel character. The best we might get is him needling the older people for booing him because the younger people more-or-less unconditionally cheer for him, but that’s at best.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 4:00 AM EST up reply actions
Younger people only cheer Cena because WWE tells them too, and Cena wins his matches in decisive fashion.
The fact that WWE is seeking to make Cena as unlikeable as possible, and the fact that WWE is actively working for people to boo Cena is hampering his appeal with the kids.
Clearly it's not,
because all the men, women and children who cheer for him are still cheering for him. The WWE has only recently started officially pushing the “Let’s Go Cena/Cena Sucks”, but it’s been going on at more or less the same critical mass level since The Rock returned a few months ago, and there’s been no noticeable difference in the auditory demographics who is cheering for him and who is booing him.
Having other people attempt to get them to boo him will likely just further their resolve to cheer for him, unless he does something egregiously bad and out of character. And, I don’t see the WWE/John Cena authorizing the character doing something egregiously bad and out of character unless the fanbase that normally has his back tires of him and turns on him- and, to date, they haven’t. It’s a circle that doesn’t connect.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
Having other people attempt to get them to boo him will likely just further their resolve to cheer for him
The people who still cheer for Cena only do so because WWE tells them too. Nothing changes the fact that this angle’s hurting Cena’s base for the reward of gaining no new fans whatsoever.
I don't see particularly why
The people who cheer for him generally are going to do so regardless. The people who boo him generally are going to do so regardless. They’ve made a point to focus on the fact that the audience is very split down certain demographic lines, but that’s been the case for months and years. Egging the audience on into booing him more vociferously isn’t going to stop the demographic that cheers for him from cheering for him, nor is it going to stop newer fans from making the decision to cheer him if that’s what they want to do.
Almost a year ago, The Rock returned and dissed Cena, prompting a large portion of the audience to boo Cena in turn (a portion of the audience that generally would have been booing him anyway). I would find it highly suspect to think that, since the audience hit critical mass in being very vocally partisan regarding cheering for/booing him, he hasn’t made a single new fan among people who are new fans or undecided. As the “Cena Sucks” chants get louder, so too do the “Let’s Go Cena” chants.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
People are calling this return disappointing?
Well it was, because it was supposed to be that way.
Even the ridiculous Neil Diamond jacket, it was all pandering to the fans but in the end nothing happened. Like what Hogan does but actually meaning to do it.
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
by IRodC on Jan 3, 2012 3:30 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Oh yes
it was all pandering to the fans but in the end nothing happened. Like what Hogan does but actually meaning to do it.
That is just so much win.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Aw, we shat up the thread.
I was avoiding work by “arguing” with Asterisk. I’m sorry.
Well, I’m not sorry for saying that Triple H sucks as a worker. But other than that, you know.
Comments here are a lot longer than a TNA Live Blog
I agree with you that Triple H sucks, but then again, I’m a Rock mark so it shouldn’t be surprising.
Guys like you, Asterisk, Major, and of course the admins makes me just keep coming back here every 10 minutes. I’ve been a long-time wrestling fan, but I sure wish I had the same amount of knowledge that you guys have.
by Man from Manila on Jan 3, 2012 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Guys, watch the video again and this time look for something in particular
That something being Jericho intentionally mugging the troll face to the camera and to the audience. He does it over and over again. Either he moves or the cameramen move to capture it at just the right angle. It’s most obvious when he jumps up on the turnbuckle and leans back to look into the camera (cameraman moving to capture the right angle) and then hops on another turnbuckle and looks at the crowd (where he then turns his face to the side slightly to make sure everyone taking pictures gets the troll face angle).
Don’t know if this link will be working by the time you all wake up, but if it is, this is the part I’m talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLi9CVi7Ld8#t=6m14s
He does it repeatedly for the whole segment though, before and after this point. My point being that this segment wasn’t as simple as Jericho mailing it in and being deliberately boring to get heat. This is Jericho actively trolling the audience in attendance and viewers at home on multiple levels and leaving his calling card for everyone who took a snapshot.
I like that theory
the way he was turning back and smiling did seem a little odd to me.
Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.
I know why Triple Asterisk is so mad at this segment.
It’s because he got severely out-trolled by Y2J, and * loves being numero uno.
I guess Jericho was trolling.
To say it was brilliant just might be hyperbole because it became unwatchable after a few minutes. I guess it worked since people were annoyed by it. Then again they were expecting Jericho to f*ck sh*t up. Instead we were given this. I’m not at all excited about next week. Luckily for the WWE, MNF is no longer on tv.
by E-ROC on Jan 3, 2012 9:26 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Having gone to sleep, and thought about it
I like the non-promo a lot more. At the time, I was very much “WTF?”, but having digested it, I have to admit, it was pretty good- as long as more is built on it next week.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 3, 2012 10:47 AM EST reply actions
This Exactly
After the intial shock of last night passes by in sleep…Ive come to accept and truly appreciate what was done last night.
Much like I did the night after Boardwalk Empire killed of one of my favorite characters in the finale.
I want to love the promo, but fear I'll hate it
I’m a huge Jericho fan. I really want to see old school Jericho. The one with the crazy hair/beard and obnoxious sequened jackets, that was the master of the mic, ripping Vance, his “trashbag ho” daughter, Tarzan, Benoit, etc to shreds. I fear this points to stuffed suit, entitled Jericho again though. If that happens, it’ll be more PG disappointment.
For now I’ll lean towards brilliant, while expecting to be disappointed. It’s nearly impossible to have a guy return & generate heel heat immediately, but he seems to have been able to do that. I thought that logically he’d be face through the Rumble, possibly winning it & then turning heel for a feud with Punk. Now I wonder if his over the top nauseatingly Cena-esque return places him somewhere in the Cena/Kane embrace the hate story line.
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Community blog posts and discussion.
