ROH TV tapings spoilers - Strong debut in Baltimore blighted by a misguided booking decision
by Keith Harris on Jan 12, 2012 8:59 PM EST
in Ring of Honor
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Over the weekend, Ring Of Honor had their first television taping since their Final Battle iPPV. There was plenty of good news for the promotion, but ultimately the show was tinged by a sour note thanks to a misguided booking decision.
Let's start with the positives. The show was packed out with 600 fans seated and 200 standing, which was impressive given it was their first event in Baltimore, a feat they haven't come close to accomplishing in the other new markets they have tried to break into. There is the caveat that in the past ROH has heavily papered their TV tapings to ensure a full looking crowd for the cameras, so this may not be as positive as it seems on first glance. Most importantly for repeat business, the show was well received and though fans were inevitably tired by the fourth show, the strong action and storyline twists kept them in their seats and engrossed till the very end, barring the final squash match.
This wasn't the only good news of the week for ROH, as their TV show has started airing in Salt Lake City, UT, Austin, TX, West Palm Beach, FL, and Medford, OR this month and will be coming to Grand Rapids, MI and Lansing, MI by March. For their seemingly outdated syndication strategy to be a success they need to keep finding new stations to air their programming, as even with this latest expansion it still can only be seen in a quarter of the country.
As the sole negative involves spoilers, I'll talk about it more after the jump. Full spoilers can be found at prowrestling.net.
The misguided booking decision was to decide to respond to the online heat that Kevin Steen, Steve Corino and The Briscoes received for taking chairshots to the head in their matches at Final Battle and that ROH management got for at the very least tacitly approving them (if you are generous and give them the benefit of the doubt, which I do not) by having yet another cranial chairshot, undoubtedly scripted this time, feature on their TV show. It would have been one thing to have the recently turned Wrestling's Greatest Tag Team gloat about the chairshots to the head that they had already given The Briscoes, but to script them in an impromptu tag match between the two teams where the former got disqualified for levelling another one on Mark Briscoe showed breathtaking arrogance and stubbornness. Jim Cornette, stubborn, well I never!
Why script something that is a turn off to a significant proportion of your viewers that knows the dangers of unnecessary head trauma? According to Dave Meltzer in the latest Wrestling Observer Newsletter the reason for it is:
So they are using the fact people hate chair shots to try and transfer that to heat on Haas & Benjamin and sympathy for the Briscoes, as opposed to heat on the promotion.
To me, that's just treating your fan base as easily manipulated, gullible fools, because it is easier to use such a dangerous short cut to pull off a difficult to execute double turn and lie about the intent afterwards, than to craft a more nuanced story to get the same desired affect. Not cool! Hopefully it reads worse than it actually was in execution, but I'm not holding my breath.
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I almost went to this but guess it wasn’t worth it. To bad cause it’s been close to 10 years since they came around my way.
you're own stupidity will lead you to your own downfall
by congestedthoughts on Jan 13, 2012 1:04 AM EST reply actions
Bandwagoneers..
If they choose to do chair shots, its their biz. One day, like climatology, science will catch up & expose the truth behind concussions.. I feel that their might be some, but nothing like what the Legacy Institute conjures up. They exist to support themselves.. if they didn’t have junk science they made up, they’d be out of jobs..
There is no way they deduced Benoit that quickly. Hell, piss tests take longer to diagnose & use more caution in their testing procedures. The reason why science hasn’t smashed the LI yet is because they are conducting REAL tests to refute this, and it takes time.. junk science comes out fast with results & the why’s.. and miraculously they always seem to fit right into the original hypothesis. Its BS & people hear it & just eat it w/ 2 spoons. I don’t understand why? Yea, I know they make it seem so plausible.. like 2 & 2 is 4. But when it fits so perfectly into the box.. that’s why you should ask the most questions. When does any complex problem get an easy answer. Its more a shame to cover up the Roids… remember who is in the LI’s back pocket & used to be an employee of WWe.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:19 AM EST reply actions
Proof? Source? Anything?
All of the key players at the SLI already had high profile jobs.
How are they covering up steroid use by looking for something that had nothing to do with steroid use?
There is no way they deduced Benoit that quickly.
Define “quickly.” The SLI released their findings about two and a half months after getting the brain tissue samples.
Everything you’re saying comes off as nothing more than blind denial.
by ThisOneGoesToEleven on Jan 13, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
It took longer to find out what drugs killed Ann Nicole Smith. And the LI came up concussions as to what caused Benoit brain rot… and they didn’t suspect anything with the drugs or anything else he did to his body? Just the concussions.. irresponsible.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
I like you raw, but this is fucking bullshit and you know it. I hate conspiracy theories and I hate people who are quick to dismiss things because it’s “fake” science. If you want to believe crap, than you feel free. But don’t post crap like this here because all you are doing is showing ignorance.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
I do believe there is some legitimacy to the claim that the chair shots to the head might be overexaggerated
You really need years of research to definitively determine the extent of the damage a chair shot to the head (mostly ones that are done by the “professionals/magicians”). At the same time, there really is no reason to use unprotected chair shots to the head right now since its pretty obvious that it isn’t good for one’s health. But the same can be said for a lot of things done in pro-wrestling, especially once you start looking at the hardcore style matches.
There is certain room for the degree of harm it causes
But it is definitive that it does cause plenty of harm. Like football, the entire “sport” is filled with injury that tend to shorten one’s life expectancy. Those are some of the risks that the athletes take. But it is the promotions duty to protect their wrestlers as much as possible. Better to be safe than sorry type of thing. It’s unethical to put your workers in any type of preventable and stupid harm, and frankly it’s bad for business if wrestlers are dieing left and right.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t want to see people die.. and I’d like answers as well.
Think of it like this.. I have chemistry books filled with theories, they have stood the test of time thus far, but are not even allowed to rules.. because there could one day be proven wrong.
The LI exists to make money.. they took advantage of a national platform.
The brain is considered the final frontier in medical science..
They haven’t even found a cure to the common cold yet, but were supposed to believe that they now know what can cause dementia?
They completely disavowed any thing that the steroids did to his brain.. and you can’t tell me that it had zero impact. Smoking weed & drinking beer kills brain cells, those are the only ones that don’t rejuvenate. What did taking other drugs do to him?
I think there should be more work done.. but not the LI, they have proven to me, not to be doing the work of science, but the work or making money & fame for themselves.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Believe me, my friend, I am not a conspiracy theorist. I didn’t say I dismissed it.. I dismiss the LI.. They said.. ok.. brain damage from chairshots.. now how did they come to that conclusion?
Are you telling me that a superplex is less dangerous than a chairshot?
They decided they wanted to make 2 + 2 = 4 & fit nicely into whatever preconceived box they came up with. I don’t believe anything conclusion should have been come to that quickly.
It took them 2.5 months.. and he had a bad brain.. but who said its from concussions? The LI did.. but what other factors did they investigate? Who said the concussions come from chairshots? Who can say other factors weren’t also in play here? 2.5 months to come up with a conclusion to a very complex issue is just irresponsible.
I will say this, taking “unprotected” shots of any kind is also irresponsible.. but its the health of the performers.. they are the ones who decide.. they know better than anyone, they have to buy their own health insurance, they are independent contractors.
Science evolves, conclusions are often wrong, scientist work not to make conclusions, but to prove theories, and 2.5 months is like a guppy in an ocean.. its nothing. The LI was given a platform with a high profile case, and they rammed home the need for them, they exist upon themselves.
How many countless other men in history have been proven wrong given enough time? The world was once thought flat. There wasn’t a western world. There was only one solar system. The Al Gore’s of the world have brought attention to issue’s in the world, and I agree that there is some work that needs to be done, but now scientist have to work to debunk crap science and work to find the real truths because people run around and act like things are fact when its simply an anomaly. People have manipulated science as means to an end for thousands of years… don’t get sucked up in all the hype, just because its the issue of the day. Soon you’ll find that they need another high profile case to continue to be relevant, or showing up on tv saying the end of the world is near if we don’t do something today.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
In (some) order
Yes, superplexes are less dangerous because there is a correct and safe way to do it, and there is no safe way to hit someone in the head.
No one is saying it was soley from chair shots. One of Benoits moves was a flying headbutt for christs sake. But chair shots are the easiest thing to ban to help protect the wrestlers.
Athletes are dumb, by definition. They go out there and perform for our benefit and can’t think of the consequences, because if you are afraid you will get hurt. It is up to the promotion to protect the well being of their wrestlers. The fact that they aren’t unionized is a crime but that is for a different post. Smarter people must protect them because they won’t protect themselves.
You keep saying the LI, but do you mean the Sports Legacy Institute? They are on the cutting edge of research into the brain. To say that their professional opinions should be dismissed because it isn’t proven ground is to say that all of cancer research should be dismissed because we don’t know everything about it. Yes, grain of salt is needed and all that. But these are smart people who spent their entire lives learning about the subject. I’m not going to say they are wrong when I have no clue what it could be.
No one actually thought the world was flat. That is a lie schools tell children, like Columbus founded America and the tale of the first Thanksgiving. Maybe the peasants thought it, but those of intelligence knew the world was round (and knew its exact size) since the Greeks
When the people who oppose climate change believe that evolution is fiction, I am gonna tend to side with the scientists who claim the world might be ending.
They have a cure for the common cold, its called the flu shot. It is not a perfect cure, but it exists.
Absolutely no one is saying steroids did nothing to Benoit. Obviously it was a combination of both. But as someone who suffers from depression, bi-polar disorder, and has had a fair share of concussions of the years, it is scary somedays to not know what you will do to yourself. The steroids must have taken its toll on his hormones and brain chemistry, but something major had to happen for him to completely lose grasp of reality.
To sum this all up,
Wrestlers, like all athletes in all sports need to be protected from themselves. To say they did this to themselves is incredibly ignorant of how these men make money in order to make you happy. Scientists that tell us bashing our brains in is bad should be thanked, not attacked. Wrestling should be fun for the performers and the fans. If people are dieing because of it, then something needs to change.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Just for starters...
The CDC.. Center for Disease Control & Prevention…
Is the flu vaccine effective against all types of flu and cold viruses?
Influenza vaccines protect against infection and illness caused by the three influenza viruses in the vaccine that research indicates will be most common this season. Flu vaccines will NOT protect against infection and illness caused by other viruses that can also cause influenza-like symptoms. There are many other viruses besides influenza that can result in influenza-like illness* (ILI) that spread during the flu season.
The Flu & Common Cold are different. Therefore, there is no cure for the common cold.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
well yeah
Cause the common cold isn’t an actual disease. It is a group of symptoms that are sorta related. There is no cure for joint pain because there are many different reasons for joint pain.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
True, but there are some better meds for that.. haha.
One thing I took when I played ball was, to help rebuild cartlidge.. those chew-able pills were some of the most disgusting things I ever ate.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Not to be a d*ck..
just thought maybe this would help you as well.
What is the difference between a cold and the flu?
The flu and the common cold are both respiratory illnesses but they are caused by different viruses. Because these two types of illnesses have similar flu-like symptoms, it can be difficult to tell the difference between them based on symptoms alone. In general, the flu is worse than the common cold, and symptoms such as fever, body aches, extreme tiredness, and dry cough are more common and intense. Colds are usually milder than the flu. People with colds are more likely to have a runny or stuffy nose. Colds generally do not result in serious health problems, such as pneumonia, bacterial infections, or hospitalizations.
I really enjoy the discussions we have CJ.. I think you’re overall pretty knowledgeable. I hate hearing of the issues you have. I, too, have had concussions and such. Plus I had the stroke which stopped blood flow to the back right cerebellar. It caused some issues & whatever. I hope that you, like me, have good people around you & help support you.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
I enjoy it too
I got a little snippy with this because I had to defend myself against a few conspiracy theorists who thought the government controlled the weather and were intentionally killing citizens to control the population. Which is pretty hard to fight against. But yeah, I got good friends around me who support me in my weak moments.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Oh man..
I got a friend who is CT nut. He calls into question Bush & 9/11 a la Jesse Ventura. I can’t even argue it, because its such nonsense. I have to leave the room when he makes his claims. Its better now that he’s sober, but not that much better.
You can debate facts, you can’t argue with people who refuse to listen. No one will change their opinion. The ones that listen, you can almost always find a little common ground with.. or at least agree to disagree.. but the others.. you’ll jsut find your head spinning.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I always tell myself not to get into it
But I end up arguing with these people, and then punching a wall in frustration. There are just some dumb, dumb people out there
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I agree. They’ve gotten my blood pressure up as well.
Not sure if you saw this, I posted it before. There was an interview on O’Reilly Factor. It was with the deadliest sniper ever. He has a book & told a story about punching down Ventura. Good stuff.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
well...
It’s funny to see someone admit that they know nothing about concussions, while at the same time admitting they know nothing of environmental science. Well done. The real door opened by this concussion awareness (as opposed to claimed snake oil conjuration), is that the bulk of concussions most likely don’t involve chairshots to the head. Whiplash, and the assorted other blows do. The reality is, you can’t legislate this kind of damage out of sports, or sports entertainment. You can cut down on risk, like this no headshot policies have done, but you can’t eliminate it. People can only be told of it, and participate on their own volition.
By the way, the booking is stupid. Beyond stupid. If I recall correctly, TNA tried this last year, in order to lend Bischoff heel heat as a bastard boss. As if that wasn’t readily known by the audience. Creative people find ways to get heat for their talent without this. Not a good look for ROH to recycle, in form, anything TNA has tried.
Don’t speak down to me. You have no idea what I have knowledge of.. Just because I question things & in the case of Al Gore.. they proved the junk in the science because the ones in England doing the test were proven to fudge the science. Look it up. I know there is man made damage being done, but to what extent? Not to the extent that Gore would have you believe, but not zero as some Republicans would have you believe either. When those scientist phonied up the science, they hurt their own cause. I think that we should be cautious about what we put in the air, and we should study how it effects us & the planet. I don’t want to see it turn back into the 70’s. But its no where near as bad as Gore & his cronies would have you believe.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
This Article..
Has Vince McMahon giving the LI money. Isn’t that suspicious in the least?
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 2:55 PM EST reply actions
Nope
McMahon wants to support the business, and knows his wrestlers safety is of the utmost important to that end. If wrestlers keep dying, there will be no one who wants to perform.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Its a little odd..
the you dismiss this obvious connection, but call into question the drug testing. Maybe not you, but others here have. Like HHH & Cena never dropping dirty on steroids. Saying those doctors might be having their palms greased, yet thinking Chris Nowlinski is on the up & up. Saying that he’s giving money to these places to help protect the wrestlers, when everything in his past points else where & has been documented as such.. NOW he worries so much about them he just gives the LI money so people won’t die?
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
There is a difference between seeing your own guys busted
And seeing young, potential stars get hurt. If he busts Cena, he lost his main event. If he funds research in how to keep future wrestlers safe, he is continuing his business. It’s for money both ways. I don’t think it is completely philanthropic, but look at all the money WWE has spent on Scott Hall, Hardys, and other wrestlers that were in need. There is a little bit of charity within him.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
Charity or good publicity. He did all that because he wanted Congress to stop looking into him & the WWe. Vince will protect the WWe at all costs.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
But I honestly believe he is fearful of the potential damage that could be happening to young wrestlers. That was part of the reason for the PG switch. If all the wrestlers are brain dead before they even make it to the big show, then there will be no WWE.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know that Vince would agree.. I think he’s too old school. He’d say something like, “we didn’t have these regulations in my past, and people weren’t drying.” Congress went nuts w/ drug overdoses & the deaths.. not the concussions. I think this was all a part of a way to get Congress off their asses. Now, that is a bit of a stretch, and a far one.. but Vince doesn’t invest money into things or projects of former employees.
Look at all the former wrestlers.. how many are brain dead? Does their life expectancy drop, yes.. is it due to concussions or drugs & booze? I think there are far more questions & should be taking more time to come up w/ the right answers.
I think the NFL is also making a big mistake. Look how many times linemen bang heads.. they aren’t getting concussed every play or even every game. They talk about a shorter life span, but most are over 275#… and their bodies are broken down from doing the samethings over & over, since most were kids. That takes untold tolls on them as well.
People die, a lot at younger ages.. wrestlers have a lot more stress than a normal person. They did stress tests on people who do more travelling.. these guys are on the road constantly. There are a number of issues with people who work nights.. these guys travel at night & sleep part of the day. There is a lot more to people’s deaths than just concussions… and some are more relevant & more proven than what the LI has run out & claimed as facts.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
That’s your 1st mistake.. believing that someone, anyone, can prevent someone else’s actions. He made decisions in his life.. it makes me ill, as much as everyone else.. but to go back, and try to do preventative measures when any tragedy happens is a common misconception. That’s what the NFL is doing..
Whatever happened to just living your life. Taking some personal responsibility for your actions.. after all, it is YOUR body.. no one put a gun to your head… If I want to work at a computer 40 hrs a week, then I can probably expect to have weakened eyes & maybe other issues that come from that job.
The tinkering with every damn little thing leads to other issues. Just like medicines.. you take something for a headache, soon you are sleeping a lot or got the runs.
This idea that big brothers need to be looking over us & deciding how we live is preposterous. If a company, such as the NFL wants to micromanage themselves into the ground in the name of helping their athletes.. then whatever.. when they are using shoddy science to do it, there’s a problem. Its still their company.. if ROH wants to run theirs another way, and don’t believe that shoddy science, then that’s how they run their company, and shouldn’t be lambasted because of it. WWe sees fit to their another. To say, hmm.. well when Jay kills his wife & son & himself.. then we’ll run back to these matches is very irresponsible. Just because one man went on a horrific rampage isn’t a reason to call into question every technique ever used in his matches.. and then on top of it all to blatantly disregard his drug use.. when we really still have no idea what kind of toll that takes on the body & brain.
Suum Cuique
by Rawuncutnxrated on Jan 13, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Because the alternative is
There will be NO more wrestlers, NO more football players, NO more hockey players, etc. If you are not going to protect your athletes, then they will die and no one will want to join the ranks. No, this is not the same as factory workers being forced into 80 hour work weeks. But just the same. You have to protect the men (and women) who are making you money.
So go forth, my brethren, and proceed to mark the f*ck out
by C. J. Bradford on Jan 13, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's just ROH trying too hard.
They don’t have to be EXTREME!!!!! The 90s are over, move on.
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
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