ESPN's Bill Simmons thinks Triple H ruined the CM Punk angle
by Keith Harris on Sep 24, 2011 5:04 PM EDT
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It's clear that CM Punk's onscreen feud with WWE management has long since fizzled out into being just another angle, after he turned the wrestling business on its head with a shocking, out of the blue, "shoot promo", the likes of which hadn't been seen on WWE programming for several years. This much people are in agreement with. But there's been plenty of online debate about exactly when the angle jumped the shark. Some would point to SummerSlam, where CM Punk prematurely lost the Undisputed WWE title when Alberto Del Rio cashed in his Money In The Bank briefcase after a Jackknife powerbomb from one Kevin Nash. A program with that old, overrated, broken down, windbag was sure to set Punk back and indeed it has, though thankfully, due to Nash's unforeseen pesky Wellness problem, at least he hasn't yet had to solve the seemingly intractable puzzle of how to get a WWE PPV quality main event match out of such a fragile and immobile opponent. Others would suggest Punk's far too rushed return to Raw on July 25th ruined the angle, as his return was just eight days after he had fulfilled his vow to leave the promotion with the WWE Championship by beating John Cena in front of one of the most rabid crowds in company history at the Money In The Bank PPV. The most cynical observers would go back one week earlier and proclaim the moment that killed the angle dead was when we heard Motorhead over the WWE PA system sing "It's time to play The Game" for the first time since the Raw after WrestleMania 27. Give me a break, the big payoff to Punk's complaints about the status quo was the return of Triple H to fire his father-in-law Vince McMahon, that's like replacing one tired character with another more tiresome one! Moreover, Punk's been the latest victim to die in flames when he took on The Cerebral Assassin at WWE Night of Champions and there's no rematch in sight.
It seems like ESPN's Bill Simmons is now a part of that most cynical grouping, which is quite the turnaround, as in late July it was clear that when he interviewed Punk for his B.S. Report podcast that he was a big fan of the angle. On the B.S. Report on September 19th he wasn't quite so gushing about WWE when he went off on a wrestling tangent while talking about the dearth of exciting big name boxing fights left in 2011:
It's really out the window that sport and now wrestling, wrestling's comeback has also gone down the tubes it looks like because Triple H had to insert himself into the whole thing. God forbid, god forbid he just like ruined the Punk thing for a couple of months. Well, it was a good four weeks.
So what do you think Cagesiders, is the mainstream sports columnist bang on the money with his assessment or was he far too harsh with his criticism of Triple H?
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He is spot on
HHH killed this particular angle, however punk is such a good speaker and wrestler he can easily be apart of another one. Its not like the nexus, jack swagger, sheamus, and christian where they need a perfect storyline written. Punk can turn a half assed storyline into a classic one.
.
So im saying yes this is dead but punk is far from fizzling away
Summer of Punk-Part 2 Ran it's course......
But CM Punk nor Alberto Del Rio from a business standpoint did much to get MNR to a 3.0, and it was only when Triple H and Nash were inserted into the storyline that the needle moved. Is that saying that CM Punk is not a player, or difference maker? Absolutely not, the angle may have not gone the way most of the IWC had hoped, but how many people would the WWE have taken that type of “insider risk” with? Not many! Punk did an excellent job, and just like the Miz, he will always be relevant because he’s not one dimensional, and can run with the ball wherever his position is on the card. I just don’t think it’s fair to say that HHH was responsible for ruining the CM Punk angle when CM Punk was the one that approached them with the idea to recreate his ROH Summer of Punk program (part 2) in the hope to jump start what was at the time a stagnant buisness, and they were receptive to his ideas. Okay, so I don’t understand the negative vibes for a 3 month program, which is what was agreed upon ny both parties. Did it deliver? Yes, was it something fresh? Yes, the real issue is Cena and the contempt that fans have for his being pushed down our throats vs Hogan esque appeal Cena has to the WWE. With the assurance this gives those in power, if things don’t go in the direction we want, there’s always John Cena to bail us out mindset!
Scott Druyan
by matz57 on Sep 24, 2011 6:32 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Simmons is right, as usual.
How can Punk look like a legit main eventer after losing to a 40+ year old who hasn’t been a regular wrestler in a year and a half. It’s beyond me how Vince approved all of this. He’s a smart man unless it involves family.
Vince hasn’t made a “smart” move in 6 years
by Jonathan Loesche on Sep 24, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t go quite that far. The Vince McMahon vs. Donald Trump hair vs. hair stipulation at WrestleMania 23 was a stroke of genius. Bringing back The Rock this year was undoubtedly a smart move too.
by Keith Harris on Sep 24, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Bringing back outside entertainers and the Rock would be smart… if it weren’t for the fact there was an underlying problem. Makes you wonder if they were obvious decisions rather than smart ones.
I think Vince’s decisions that he made over the years since the ’80’s seemed reactive rather than proactive.
by Sir Ingenious on Sep 24, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
There's no reason to think otherwise
So I don’t need to go in yet another rant but to sum this whole thing up whether HHH ruined the angle…..of course. HHH and probably Vince didn’t want to see anyone get bigger than his own homegrown Cena. It’s funny cause I could’ve sworn WCW did almost the same thing when Goldberg was around. Nash was the booker and he didn’t want anybody to get bigger than he or anyone in the NWO was so here we are years later instead of Nash doing the calling, it’s HHH who has the last laugh. What a waste of an angle that was so hot during the summer.
by congestedthoughts on Sep 24, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions
the biggest problem is they just haven’t turned HHH heel. this program is basically every IWC forums wet dream. on these forums the general opinion is that HHH holds everyone down to keep himself over so insert that into the damn storyline. turn him heel on Punk and have him come out and admit in a promo that its basically true.
stupid nash qoute
I texted myself LOL what a joke
I think Punk came back too soon, but that didn't ruin anything
When he came back, the audience was hot for him. When Nash attacked him at Summerslam, causing him to lose the title to Alberto Del Rio, it changed the nature of his storyline (until then, it was deciding who was the ‘rightful’ champion), but didn’t cause the wind to disappear from his sails. Whoever was responsible for the story in the next week or three afterward is what did it in. He went from returned champion trying to usher in a new age of wrestling, to trying to figure out what executives screwed him out of his title, to…I don’t know. Him losing to HHH didn’t help at all, and basically sucked what little momentum that he had from everything out.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 24, 2011 8:06 PM EDT reply actions
yes, that's it. Because HHH didn't destroy anyone's career when he was a heel.
Please. Turning HHH heel wouldn’t have worked because the same thing would’ve happened. He would’ve buried Punk, then gone on the same power trip he’s done for the last decade.
The issue is the man. He couldn’t even put over the angle on Sirius radio. He said that the reason that the angle was so huge was because how the WWE promoted it, not because of Punk. It’s ridiculous to think that he’d put Punk over whether face or heel because that’s not what he does. Like almost every other bodybuilder, he doesn’t see himself as vulnerable or weak. Anybody that has beat him clean has always gotten a receipt. He’s this generation’s Hogan, just not as popular.
WWE, and moreover Vince, can’t stand promoting anything that’s not their idea. Why do you think they change the name of everyone that comes in that could trade off their old persona? Tyler Black is Seth Rollins, Claudio Castagnoli is Antonio Cesaro, Joe Hennig is Michael McGillicutty, etc. How many gold mines and money presses has Vince pissed away because of petty ego? Let’s do a short list:
-Ric Flair coming into the WWF, 1991.
-WCW/ECW Invasion, 2001.
-Eric Bischoff comes to WWE, 2002.
-Kane mask angle.
-Nexus angle, 2010.
Is there really any doubt that Vince would piss this away? Especially when your son-in-law has your ear.
McGillicutty I believe chose not to use the Hennig name.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
The angle hasn't really ran its course.
There is a lot of uncertainty with the angle still so I disagree. I’ll change my tune around WM of next year if it falls apart.
lol, were you trying to see how many times you could use the word cynical in this post?
Triple H didn’t kill this angle, mainly because the angle isn’t dead. Its just actually growing rather than being the same thing for 5 PPVs in a row. Just think about how TNA would have handled this. You would see at least 4 or 5 PPVs where CM Punk and Cena fight for the title, most likely not having a clean finish in any of them. Look at the progression of this feud so far and what its building too:
Punk vs. Cena for the WWE title – Punk wins
Punk vs. Cena for the undisputed WWE title – Punk loses after Nash screws him
Punk vs. Triple H – Punk loses after Nash, Miz, and RTruth screw him
Now you’ve got a triple threat hell in the cell with Cena, Del Rio, and Punk which should be a great match. And while this is going on, they’re building to a Survivors Series PPV that will be main evented with a traditional Survivors Series match that actually has a pretty long-term storyline behind it. I don’t see how this angle is fizzling out unless you just expected Punk to have one of the most talked about promos in wrestling history every week . Geno, you should be able to see how the interest is still there since you’re the one quoting the page views the site is getting these days.
There were hiccups along the way, like the possibility of Nash vs. Punk, but luckily that didn’t happen and we got to see Punk verbally own Nash on the mic for 3 weeks. Its a good story line that is adding some new faces to the main event picture (or keeping some from getting lost in the shuffle) and has the potential to add more guys.
"In fact, most of these free-swinging Padres couldn’t hit Dock’s funky palm ball. I threw it often. But by then, also, the first acid distractions entered: the TV flickered; the cracks in the wall started to move; the hand soap started to breathe — those sorts of things. Plus I was drawn to the outdoor garden between innings. Rain was near, I sensed." - A.J. Daulerio
Ruined the second they brought him back
It seems to me they weren’t expecting Punk to get over that much. They rushed him back and have been flying by the seat of their pants ever since.
Release...the KITTIES!
Of course, HHH destroyed Punk's momentum.
Sure, he made Punk look strong by delivering 3 pedigrees to finally put Punk down, but he didn’t turn heel like he should have. When HHH saw Punk becoming he next huge star, he inserted himself in the angle just so he rob some of the spotlight. Punk is still the focal point on Raw considering that he has main evented 3 PPVs in a row, with a fourth coming in a week.
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the problem goes back to with punk not being "really fired"
of course wwe dont have a great deal of great characters atm. so theres punk, sheamus, r truth, christian, henry. bryan think thats it. if this punk storyline was done in the attitude era or if the wwe had more characters…he would have taken a longer break before coming back.
would have been better to see cm punk “defend” the belt in roh or some indy companies with the videos being uploaded to online. meanwhile various wwe stars go on talk shows and radio shows…suddenly cm punk turns up to troll them….eventually being “forced” to leave via security. then 2-3 months later maybe even longer….cm punk rerturns and then all whats happening now happened. only with hhh being slowly more heelish. then when hhh needed a break replace him with this anon gm and finish that **** up of a storyline wwe didnt even and possibly wont finish. then again without punk what do wwe really have? ooooh cena and orton’s current title reign or next title shot?
but hey…kapoor and koskey and hayes and gerwitz and mcmahon and hhh and casiello(soap opera writer. not wrestling booker) and whoever else involved with wwe creative is doing a really great job…..yeah they arent…..all terrible atm.
by wrestlingfan12 on Sep 25, 2011 12:47 AM EDT reply actions
No, Punk’s angle was ruined after he lost the belt at SummerSlam. I said it then and it stands even more true today after that it was clear that the WWE had no idea what they were doing. By the time that it became the Nash/Triple-H and Punk show the air was already out of the balloon, him losing to the game was just the last bit or dirt thrown on this entire angle.
"@bigfootsilva, I want to tell you a joke so funny it will make your head grow. It goes like this..Oh wait, I see you have already heard it." -Chael Sonnen
Punk losing to HHH. I was fine with everything up until that point… the quick return didn’t ruin it, ADR cashing after the Nash screwjob didn’t ruin it, the less then stellar build-up to HHH v. Punk didn’t ruin it… but there was no way that Punk should have jobbed to Trips. The number of pedigree’s (in my mind) mitigates nothing… it accomplished nothing, it robbed Punk of momentum, advanced no storyline, made no sense (R-Truth first lays Punk on top of Trips and then pulls him off? WTF).
I see that moment ending up as doing to the angle what Cena showing up week after week (as himself) after being fired by Barrett did to the Nexus angle.
Could they recover? Yes. Will they do what they need to recover it? I doubt it.
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