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WWE Smackdown results and reactions from tonight's (Nov. 29) live 'Holiday Special'

Photo via WWE.com

WWE Smackdown tonight (Tues., Nov. 29, 2011), took place at the Time Warner Cable Arena in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I feel sincerely sorry for those that paid to attend this monstrosity live and in the flesh.

There isn't much to say about this show, which is why I'm not saving this post for the morning. Click here for full results and the running live blog. Let's just jump right in, shall we?

  • Easily the worst Smackdown in the past six months. There are those that will harp on me for talking down on it and claiming I'm not really a fan but I'll always tell you how I actually feel and I'll never accept WWE trying to feed me hot garbage. Let's fix a quote from the movie Billy Madison and apply it to this show tonight. This says it all: "Mr. McMahon, what you've just presented ... is one of the most insanely idiotic shows I have ever seen. At no point in your rambling, incoherent show were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational event. Everyone at the arena and at home is now dumber for having watched it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul."
  • By the time we got around to the main event of Daniel Bryan vs. Mark Henry for the world heavyweight championship, the ship was already well under water. There was simply no way these two talented individuals had enough in them to salvage the wreckage. But damned if they didn't do their best and come extremely close to it. The match was exciting, the crowd was hot for it and the finish was fuggin' money. My only gripe was Henry suddenly forgetting to sell the ankle in order to do unnecessary moves like a running clothesline. Minor details can be killer in great matches. Still, it was amazing and shows promise for a future feud while continuing the push of Bryan, who came out of this looking pretty good.
  • The only other bright spot during the night was Randy Orton's utter and complete dismantling of David Otunga. As I wrote in the live blog, this was one of the few times I would endorse a squash match involving Orton and that's basically what we got. And it was really fun. I've talked a bit about it but it's impressive to see Orton completely reinvent himself as a carefree sort of babyface who just has fun with what he's doing and elevates the talent around him. I'm sure he'll get another long run with a major title and by then, he'll deserve the hell out of it. Hell, he deserves it now for tonight's match. When he tossed that box and it hit Otunga in the head, leading to Otunga dropping like a ton of bricks, and literally just stopped and started laughing, I marked out for him. Not sure I've ever said that before. Orton was super fun on a night that tried so hard to be that, it had the opposite effect.
  • Check that, there was one more good thing tonight. Cody Rhodes was solid. The heat he's getting is gradually growing and Booker T, a veteran who knows how to work, should do wonders with him. I liked how they teased the match tonight but didn't give it away. Save it for TLC.
  • Dear WWE: I don't care if they are just a bunch of lame jobbers and we all know the eventual finish to the match, you don't EVER go to commercial break during a battle royal. Never again. Signed, someone who calls himself a fan but will never acknowledge the ridiculous WWE Universe moniker.
  • Mick Foley is so much better than this. So is Roddy Piper and Dusty Rhodes and Goldust and really, anyone else involved in those silly backstage segments. Silly is being too nice. Stupid, pointless, mind numbingly dumb, any of those will work. Such a waste of time. I really hope they find a better way to use Foley, and soon.
  • Having Kofi Kingston put the reindeer hat on and fly through the air with his cross body off the top for the pin? Really? It was kind of racist but I genuinely believe Vince McMahon wanted it done just so Josh Mathews could shout "THE FLYING REINDEER" while he was in the air. It's like a really old child is booking the biggest and most successful pro wrestling promotion in the world. And we, the fans, who know exactly how great it can be, have to suffer through it.
  • Last point (and how sad is it that I can't even get to a jump break with a two hour show): Vince had to be heavily involved in this. What makes it so sad is this was a live Smackdown and a heavily promoted show, at that. This was their chance to make a great impression and they failed miserably. Whoever tuned in tonight that doesn't normally tune in on Friday nights has absolutely zero reason to do so. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see quarter ratings that show record numbers of people tuned out by the end of the first half hour.

This show gets a a solid D from me and that's only because Orton was a genius and Bryan and Henry had a great match to close the show. The rest was so spectacularly bad, I can't give any more credit.

Go ahead and sound off with your thoughts below, Cagesiders. Good and bad.

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garbage of a show

Smackdown is the usual saving grace for the WWE week after week. With so much promotion behind this show being live, you’d think they would at least have a quality show if nothing else. wrong.

From the start with Foley coming out as Santa, I just knew it was downhill from here. If I were 10 years old, I would have thought all of those segments with Foley/Dusty/Booker. etc were not funny. Kind of mind boggling to think that this has to pass through a group of people.

Daniel Bryan vs. Mark Henry was a great TV match. great ending. both guys came out looking good.

Squash match or no sqaush match, Otunga should never get air time, ever. NEVER.

3/10.

by dkiller on Nov 29, 2011 11:24 PM EST reply actions  

I like Otunga's lawyer character

Somebody has to get put in squash matches. At least it is somebody with a ‘character’.

by Manolo Has Pizzazz on Nov 29, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Otunga sucks on the mic.

Sure, he’s much worse in the ring, but Otunga sounds more scripted on the mic than anybody on the roster, including Miz. Sure, somebody has to be squashed, but it doesn’t make them any good.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Gotta agree

His delivery is too monotone, or something.

And, if they’re going to basically be keeping him out of the ring, and using him primarily as a background character, he’s going to need to address that.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I like it too.

by Jon Knapik on Nov 30, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

I just always picture him as the guy on

I Love New York VH1 reality show. Maybe its my fault for watching that show, but its his fault for being horrendous in the ring.

by dkiller on Nov 30, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

How is reindeer Kofi racist?

I don’t see it. Someone clue me in please. I was thinking the same thing as, “I genuinely believe Vince McMahon wanted it done just so Josh Mathews could shout ‘THE FLYING REINDEER’”.

by Manolo Has Pizzazz on Nov 29, 2011 11:30 PM EST reply actions  

Same here.

The Vince part, I get completely, and agree 100%. The racist part, I don’t get or agree with, at all.

by GunShark on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

It wasn't racist.

It was just a waste of time, made Kofi look completely ridiculous, and made it harder to take Kofi seriously, and Kofi really needs to have some credibility considering he’s still the tag champ.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

It's simple:

Kofi is black, therefore racism.

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Nov 30, 2011 6:13 AM EST up reply actions  

its not racist

its just a play on the color of his skin. if the raindeer was pale white, sheamus would have done something just as humiliating. don’t go crying race now. cmon son.

by dkiller on Nov 30, 2011 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Son,

Obviously I was being sarcastic. I actually think it’s just another case of Geno feverishly trying to find something to bitch about.

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Nov 30, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Sigh.

Yep. That’s the only reason I have this job. Because I love to bitch. I hate being entertained, I just like to complain.

Anyone that believes that is just being silly. The show sucked. I said it sucked. Sorry.

Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.

by Geno Mrosko on Nov 30, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Sigh

I don’t care if you don’t like it, that is your right. I certainly don’t think it’s perfect. But if you are going label something racist at least explain why.
If you just call something racist and then swiftly move on to the next topic without explaining why you think something is racist that’s just irresponsible, lazy and gives the impression you like to bitch for the sake of bitching.

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Nov 30, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Of all the guys to do that spot

knowing the WWE’s track record for racism in the workplace made it feel in-racist. Like, let’s pick Kofi to be the reindeer, you know, the animal that does nothing but carry the big fat white guy around. Not a huge deal, which is why I didn’t harp on it, but knowing the culture of WWE made that feel a bit racist to me.

Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.

by Geno Mrosko on Nov 30, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

my fault my fault.

I dont know what i thought i read. apologies.

by dkiller on Nov 30, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions  

no prob

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Nov 30, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

man I love that Billy Madison quote

it works so good for so many situations

Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.

by 49erLou on Nov 29, 2011 11:41 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed, it's the only reason I clicked on and read through this post, tbh.
Mr. McMahon, what you’ve just presented … is one of the most insanely idiotic shows I have ever seen. At no point in your rambling, incoherent show were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational event. Everyone at the arena and at home is now dumber for having watched it. I award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul."

So good.

God is fake, guns are good, and people are crazy.

by *Californication* on Nov 30, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

We seemed to agree to a pin point on Orton. In fact some of the things you wrote I said during the live run.

Also.. you are dead wrong about Foley & them writing it. Foley is.. if you see everything he’s done in TnA & WWe the last few years.. its all the same crap. It can’t be the writers when the only common denominator is Foley himself & I promise you.. he’s got some creative control & is pitching these ugly skits. Unless he’s wrestling as Cactus or Mankind,… he’s not allowed on my tv ever again.

by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 29, 2011 11:43 PM EST reply actions  

I don't understand the complaints

I honestly don’t. Yeah, it was a dumb show. But it was a throwaway special. The Raw roster is traveling overseas. They can’t advance any of those storylines. They were limited in what they can do. This wasn’t supposed to be a normal Smackdown. All the matches had a few fun spots, the main event was awesome, the backstage segments were batshit insane but fuck you they were funny. If you weren’t laughing tonight then you are missing the point. I understand that you “tell it like it is” and are a tough grader on these shows. But it’s wrestling. It’s the WWE. It’s supposed to be stupid and dumb and funny and spot heavy. It’s one thing when Trips and Nash are cutting horrible promos and they are burying characters. This was a through away show with half their roster. It was funny. Don’t take your television so seriously.

by C. J. Bradford on Nov 30, 2011 12:13 AM EST reply actions  

How is a live Smackdown special a throwaway show?

That’s a horrible way to look at it.

Believe me, I would love to just have fun and laugh at the comedy skits. They just weren’t funny. Not to me, at least.

Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.

by Geno Mrosko on Nov 30, 2011 4:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Caus you're missing half your roster

There are too ways to look at it. Either it was a throwaway and it was dumb but funny, or it was entirely serious about itself and it sucked. Why would you want to assume the latter? I think it’s the most enjoyable way to look at it. Kofi was having fun, Orton broke character and laughed, Sheamus and Hornswoggle were laughing. No one on Smackdown took the show seriously, why should you? The only part that was serious was the main event, and it was great for a free show. I don’t understand what wasn’t funny about the skits. I think you’re just a negative nancy, Geno

by C. J. Bradford on Nov 30, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

No one (I think) is taking it seriously where they don’t want any comedy on the shows. People are serious in that they want the show to be good. Nothing wrong with that.

by Jon Knapik on Nov 30, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I understand that

But there are two types of bad shows. One that has bad storytelling, bad booking, and bad characters taking up show time. Then there’s campy bad. So dumb its good. I think this show was the second one. The matches (for the most part) were really good. I think the Rumble ending. I honestly enjoyed the backstage stuff. Was this an amazing show? No of course not. That’s not what I’m trying to say. I’m just saying that it was enjoyable. A D grade means it was horrific. I don’t see that.

by C. J. Bradford on Nov 30, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Orton also broke out a Ho Ho Ho merry Christmas line during the match

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"YOU ARE A FACTORY OF SADNESS" Angry Browns fan
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 30, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

that whole match was awesome

in a very corny way

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"YOU ARE A FACTORY OF SADNESS" Angry Browns fan
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 30, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm with you, CJ.

Relax a little. This show wasn’t indicating the direction for the future. Everyone was just having fun. It’s a throwaway show in that they weren’t advancing any storylines (well, except for Bryan/Henry and Booker/Cody, and they did portray those seriously).

by joliemadchen on Nov 30, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't think it was that bad either.

And judging by most other reviews I’ve seen, I’m not in the minority.

It was a bit heavy on the camp but as long as every episode isn’t like that it’s fine. When Piper and Dusty dumped their eggnog back into the bowl after ‘Santa’ disappeared I LOL’d.

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Nov 30, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Well it's good to have some support here

I love Cageside. But the reviews are so negative it makes me a little sad. It was a silly show and should be seen as such. But everyone are allowed their own opinion. Cept for asterisk. Fuck that guy

by C. J. Bradford on Nov 30, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Sometimes this site just seems like a big rage dump and I agree that it is kinda sad.

I really think RAW and Smackdown have been improving, albeit slowly, over the last several weeks but if you just read this site and nothing else you would think Rome is burning and Vince is playing a fiddle while fondling an underage boy. It is remarkable.

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Nov 30, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

They were actually pretty good comedy skits

but some guys want an ROH-type show with pure wrestling. You’re not getting that from the WWE, and you should know that coming in.

It was a very good show in my opinion.

by Razztopia on Nov 30, 2011 12:56 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Quite easily the worst WWE show I've seen this year

It had everything wrong with it.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2011 1:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

The match Henry had with Dragon tonight is my biggest problem with the Henry push.

The match was too short to be truly great like Dragon’s ROH classics, or even on the level of that one match Dragon had with Dolph Ziggler last year, but if it was any longer, Henry’s gassing would’ve killed the match.

Not to mention, even though Dragon’s a million times better than Henry at everything, Dragon still lost cleanly and decisively in a relatively short amount of time when Henry is injured, and Dragon desperately needs something resembling credibility before he gets the title. If anyone actually thinks that Henry’s putting over Dragon in a meaningful way after this, they’re deluded.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 1:28 AM EST reply actions  

Also, do you just sort of imagine Henry’s gassing as a way to push your narrative

Henry gasses all the time, just last week he gassed at his Survivor Series match with Big Show. It went 16 minutes, literally every other WWE main eventer can handle at least 30 without gassing, and several can handle 60. When did it become acceptable to lower the standard for Henry’s benefit?

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

It’s acceptable when you take into account his size. Henry can’t work 60 minutes, and Randy Orton can’t lift The Big Show over his head. Andre the Giant couldn’t work 60 minutes.

It’s foolish to dismiss someone because he lacks an attribute, when he brings many others to the table.

by Jon Knapik on Nov 30, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Andre did work 60 minute matches.

I don’t hate Henry because Henry’s a big man, many of my favorites ever were big men, Henry just happens to suck at wrestling.

Great big men can work for 30 and 60 minute matches. Bruno Sammartino was built like a brick house, and he worked countless 60 minute matches against the likes of Harley Race and Giant Baba. Baba himself was known for his amazing stamina, and worked a bunch of 60 minute matches himself. Jumbo Tsuruta weighed close to 300 lbs, and he worked 60 minute matches against the likes of Jack Brisco and Nick Bockwinkel. Brock Lesnar, the Rock, John Cena, and Triple H are all hosses, and they worked fantastic 60 minute matches.

And a wrestler doesn’t have to have been in a 60 minute match for my love, they just need good conditioning. Undertaker has never been in a 60 minute match, but Undertaker doesn’t get gassed after 5 minutes of activity like Henry: hell, Undertaker works phenomenally in long matches. Bam Bam Bigelow never worked a 60 minute match, and Bigelow was one of the best workers of all time, both amaingly athletic, and fantastically conditioned. Takeshi Morishima never worked a 60 minute match, but his match with Bryan Daneilson is considered by many to be the greatest match in ROH history.

Plus, all the guys I mentioned earlier have interesting offense, Henry has a bodyslam, a press slam, and the Swampass.

Henry is awful in the ring, has always been awful, and will always be awful. My hatred of him has nothing to do with a hatred of big men.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not so much that, I just hate that everyone else seems to love the guy even though he's awful

Also, you could at least bring up a new argument as to why Henry isn’t terrible. Because I’ve yet to see how an inflexible, immobile hoss with five moves and terrible cardio can ever be considered acceptable, let alone great.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I think most of us have gone over this before

Yes, his in-ring work isn’t good. But everything outside of that has been great, and you really aren’t giving Henry credit for doing all of the storytelling he has been doing everywhere other than the ring. Most of the people who are enjoying his reign (and that’s a healthy majority of the IWC and the non-IWC fans who are reacting appropriately to him) are doing so because he has been compelling on the mic, booked to be unbeatable (not his doing obviously), and have the appearance of credibility.

His matches with Orton have been decent given his limitations, and only the Big Show ones have fallen flat and required gimmicks to keep interest. Luckily, there will only be one more before he moves on to the next opponent.

by Michael Jong on Nov 30, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Saying that everything outside of in-ring work has been fine even though the in ring work sucks is my problem with Henry.

In ring work is the single most important part of professional wrestling. Everything else is just a garnish. I’ve gone over numerous times why people have enjoyed Henry’s booking, but these matches have been awful, and WWE has zero intentions of putting Bryan Danielson over against Henry.

How can you possibly justify Henry’s reign when the matches suck, and he’s not going to put over Danielson.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

But his in-ring work HAS been good

Very good. Many people have gone over this a number of times. Great timing, good base for opponents to bump off of, awesome facials, very good seller, and I could go on.

by Razztopia on Nov 30, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Kevin Nash was the exact same way back in the 90's, and Nash was awful.

Hell, at least Nash was more mobile and had better cardio than Henry, even though he rarely used it.

If you want to see what a great big man wrestler is, watch any Undertaker match, or watch Takeshi Morishima’s run as ROH world champion, or the old Sammartino/Baba/Jumbo/Hansen/Gordy/Dr. Death tapes. Those guys were all Henry’s size, and they could actually work.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think that I have a much better idea of what makes a good big man

than you give me credit for.

If you think that ‘90s Nash was a base for wrestlers in the same way ’11 Mark Henry is, then you don’t know what a base is. If you think ’90s Nash had the ability to sell injuries that ’11 Henry did, again I am not sure that you know what selling is.

by Razztopia on Nov 30, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you not read any of my examples on what makes a good big man.

I’m not saying Nash is good, I’m saying that Nash was awful in the ring, but still far better than Henry up until 1998. Nash had far better psychology, mobility, and even though he rarely utilized his athletic ability, when he did, he left Henry in the dust.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

None of the guys...

You mentiooned — save for Baba — were anywhere near as heavy as Henry.

And The Undertaker has been wrestling for nearly 30 years and has only gotten good in the past what, 10 or so? UT used to be absolutely dreadful technically.

by Sergio Hernandez on Dec 1, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Undertaker was always fantastic.

’Taker’s HiaC match at Bad Blood happened in 1997, and was considered by many to be the best wrestling match ever. Undertaker’s problem was that he got lazy in the ring for many stretches of his career (i.e. the Ministry Era), or was told to limit his speed to look more like a zombie (i.e. his debut).

Whenever those shackles came off, his matches were nothing short of phenomenal. Undertaker is also universally considered the best ring general in the business by damn near everybody.

And even though those guys I mentioned are all less heavy than Henry, that’s Henry’s own fault. Henry doesn’t have any more weightlifting comeptitions he has to compete in, he regained his weight for the Arnold Strongman classic. Henry’s only 6 ft 4, he could easily lose 100 or 150 lbs, get in great cardiovascular condition, and improve his ringwork dramatically, but he chooses not to.

Just about every wrestler will tell you that they had to lose weight at some point in their career to keep their ability. Particularly Mick Foley, who lost 60-odd lbs for his Cactus Jack returns. Henry’s choosing to be fat and lazy, and it sucks.

by *Asterisk* on Dec 1, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions  

No, Taker...

Wasn’t always great.

He’s an amazing storyteller inside the ring but his technical chops simply weren’t there early on.

And Henry weights close to 400 pounds. He probably hasn’t been 300 pounds since he was in his early 20s. People are built differently. You can’t just look at someone’s height and say, “Oh yeah, they couldn’t easily drop 150 pounds.”

Easily drop 150 pounds? What world do you live in where that’s easy?

by Sergio Hernandez on Dec 1, 2011 1:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Henry weighing 400 lbs isn't his natural weight.

Henry only gained that much weight for powerlifting. For a man of his size, losing even 50 lbs should be as simple as cutting out excess carbohydrates, decreasing meal size, only eating when hungry, stopping when full, and taking up jogging.

It really wouldn’t be too hard for Henry to get in shape because he’s done it before multiple times, and he’s a god damn professional athlete. Henry was in his mid 30’s back when he last dropped a lot of weight in OVW only to gain it back to win the Arnold Strongman Classic, why keep this excess baggage? It slows him down, it makes his matches unwatchable, it’ll probably kill him in a decade if he doesn’t lose at least 50 lbs. For his own good, Henry needs to lose weight.

by *Asterisk* on Dec 1, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, in-ring work is the single most important part of professional wrestling TO YOU

And maybe to NJPW or ROH. Not here in the WWE.

I also think that your definition of “working” is WAY too narrow. It’s like you want to see guys sprint around and do MOVEZ and that is “working” to you, or at least that’s how you come off.

by Razztopia on Nov 30, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Ring work is the most important part of any promotion, even WWE.

What are people doing when they’re buying PPV’s? They’re buying wrestling matches.

Why do people watch wreslters cut promos? Because they like seeing the wrestler talk about how much ass they’ll kick in wrestling matches.

What was the single highest rated segment in pro wrestling history? A lot of people cite “This is Your Life,” but the actual righest rated segment in pro wrestling history was Undertaker vs. Steve Austin from 1999, a wrestling match.

And when did I ever say that MOVEZ are what I value. I hate spot monkeys, I also hate slow, immobile hosses with six moves. I like wrestlers with great conditioning, a crisp yet varied moveset, and heated matches. My favorite match of the 20th century is probably the hossiest match ever (Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Billy Robinson). I don’t hate Henry because he’s a hoss, I hate him because he’s terrible in the ring.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

To see a payoff to a well-told storyline.

No one gave a shit about Rock/Hogan or Warrior/Hogan or any other WM money matches because they were expecting a five-star match filled with WERKRATE.

I again question your understanding of what workrate is.

by Razztopia on Nov 30, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Where on Earth did I say I didn't value storytelling?

Storytelling is what makes a match great in the first place. I’m a huge fan of the match between Davey Richards and Eddie Edwards, but not the match between Davey Richards and Tyler Black, because while Richards/Black felt like an exhibition, Richards/Edwards felt like a war. There was character and psychology in the moves used in Richards/Edwards, Richards hesitated on his moves until Edwards dared him to truly fight with everything they had, and the viciousness escalated until finally Davey hit Edwards with the most vicious kicks imaginable to put him down. It was fantastic.

Also, Rock was, and still is, a fantastic athlete and fantastic worker. Of course people wanted to see his matches, Rocky’s speed and smoothness on his moves is practically unheard of, especially for a man of Rocky’s size. Hogan was also a very good worker, and even though Warrior was fucking awful in the ring, Pat Patterson was a great enough worker to plan out a match for Warrior/Hogan that wouldn’t expose too many of Warriors weaknesses. To the surprise of no one, Warrior bombed as champion because Patterson couldn’t plan out all Warriors matches for him, nor disguise Warrior’s weaknesses when warrior was up against Papa Shango.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

In comparison to Big Show, Undertaker, Kane and Brock Lesnar

The Rock, John Cena and Triple H really aren’t that big. I mean The Rock is somewhere in the 265-270 range maybe. Cena is 250, HHH is 255. whereas the Big Show is 400+ Undertaker about 300 Kane somewhere around there as well. The Big Show truly was an athlete, he played D I Baseketball at Wichita State. Mark Henry placed 10th at the 92 Olympics, do you realize how hard that is and he only finished 14th in the world at the 96 Olympics with a bad back. Just because he may not fit what you exactly want as a wrestler doesn’t make him bad, I mean Hulk Hogan was not a good wrestler at all and looking at what came after him in terms of charasmatic speakers he wasn’t all that he was cracked up to be, but he was pushed to the moon and back in two promotions.

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"YOU ARE A FACTORY OF SADNESS" Angry Browns fan
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 30, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Hulk Hogan was much better at everything than Henry up until around 2006.

Hogan was never a great wrestler, but Hogan was at least competent, and quite mobile compared to Henry. Plus, even in his 50’s, Hogan could still work a longer and more entertaining match than Henry.

Also, Hogan was more than just a good promo, Hogan was earth shatteringly good at promos. Hogan was also a fantastic seller, and easily the best no seller the business has ever seen. Hogan also drew a lot of money and sold a lot of PPV’s.

Comparing Henry to Hogan is an insult to Hogan. Hogan is an asshole, and a mediocre wrestler, but Hogan was a fantastic seller, and drew money like almost nobody else could dream. Hell, comparing Cena to Hogan would be an insult to Hogan, and unlike Henry, I’ve actually seen Cena matches that were good and even great.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

whoa whoa when was this?
Andre did work 60 minute matches.

because I’m pretty sure I would remember an Andre the Giant Iron Man Match

Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.

by 49erLou on Dec 1, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Most of Andre's peak years didn't have their matches taped.

Because back in the day, promoters would show as little on TV as they possibly could so they could hook people into paying money to attend the live shows. As a result, any serious main eventer had to be able to work 60 minute matches, because the 60 minute time limit draw was often the best solution to have a title match get a shit finish without having the crowd feel cheated.

Andre worked a 60 minute time limit draw against Nick Bockwinkel on November 4th, 1979, and probably worked more, but by the time this shit was actually filmed and recorded, Andre had passed his peak, so most people don’t know how great Andre was in the ring.

by *Asterisk* on Dec 1, 2011 1:27 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah I did a little research on that myself

and you are right, he worked a 60 minute match with Bockwinkel and Harley Race.

Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.

by 49erLou on Dec 1, 2011 2:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Bryan is better than Henry in every way, yes. But you’re getting the talent of pro-wrestling mixed up with the talent of fighting. Remember, they’re putting on a show here. Talent at pro-wrestling is talent at story telling, and telling a good story doesn’t mean you win. In the story universe, Henry is not going to lose to Bryan. Boxers don’t fight guys even ten pounds heavier than them.

Henry was halfway injured and got taken to the limit, and in story terms, that’s fantastic for Bryan. You also have to remember: a healthy Henry decimated Orton, Sheamus, Kane, Ezekiel Jackson, Great Khali and Big Show. It evens out and puts Bryan on their level, because none of them (except for the recent Big Show) looked as good as Bryan did tonight.

by evisruc on Nov 30, 2011 6:52 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Nailed it

Bryan came out looking decent. The match was actually slower than I would have liked, with a few too many clotheslines (though the bumps Bryan took really made them look impressive). But nevertheless, the spots were pretty good. The submission spot and counters were solid, and the corner spot with Bryan trying to escape but getting caught in the World’s Strongest Slam worked. Basically, it took Henry his finishing move from the top rope to end Bryan, and Bryan pushed him to the limit.

This match bought Bryan credibility. It wasn’t a squash, it never looked like a squash, and he had multiple spots where he almost won. How does this not look good for him in the future?

by Michael Jong on Nov 30, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't matter that there were multiple spots where he "almost" won.

Danielson lost quickly, cleanly, and decisively against an injured opponent, he went against his word, failed his cash in, and has jobbed on almost all the matches he’s had this year. He’s constantly called a “nerd” and “loser” by Michael Cole, and Cole’s never truly called out on it because Cole always gets the last word.

Sure, it was better than having Henry kill Bryan even while injured, but none of that matters, because the match never should’ve happened in the first place. Danielson needs to win matches before anyone will give a shit about him being champion, that isn’t happening, and at this rate, it’s never going to.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

It does matter

Guys can lose and look good, and in that case Bryan did. When you say “decisively,” it sounds as if it was a five-minute squash. It wasn’t.

While I admit that choosing this time to have the match was a bit odd (it was unnecessary to have Henry fight anyone until TLC, given the injury angle), this did not seem to bury Bryan in anyone’s eyes but yours. It’s just the beginning of a feud they will certainly be building up. It’s not even the Rumble yet, so there’s no need to fear about how awful the last few months of booking have been, because the next few months (theoretically) should be better if the plan is to have the heat transferred from Henry to Bryan at Wrestlemania.

by Michael Jong on Nov 30, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

The match shouldn’t have happened. Mark Henry was kayfabe injured, but he won decisively, and for a world title match against what is supposed to be the next world champion, it was a squash.

This isn’t a heat transfer. WWE is booking Danielson to look weak because they plan on turning him heel on Big Show at TLC after the awful Big Show/Henry match, and Danielson isn’t getting over once he becomes champion because he has no heat, and has lost against all his important opponents, so they’ll just shove him further down the card.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

No, it wasn't a squash.

With all due respect, I think that while you might be a fan of wrestling, you don’t really understand how wrestling works.

I will guarantee you that everyone else saw Bryan hang with a dominant World Champion and come closer to beating him than Randy Orton ever did in their feud. That match made him look like a legit main eventer after months of losing to guys like Wade Barrett.

by Razztopia on Nov 30, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

How is Henry beating Danielson in less than 10 minutes while kayfabe injured not a decisive victory?

All of Randy Orton’s matches with Henry lasted longer, and the HiaC match had Henry looking more dominant against Henry than Danielson has against any opponent he’s had this year.

Danielson has lost way too many matches in the past year to look like a legit main eventer against anyone. It’s nonsense to claim otherwise.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

If you watched that match and didn't see how Danielson got a rub from nearly beating Mark Henry

then you are stubborn, obstinate, or unable to process the story being told in a wrestling match.

by Razztopia on Nov 30, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Danielson is exactly as over as he was before facing Henry.

That is to say, not over at all because it was just another routine match for Henry. If you can’t see that story, you’re in denial about how WWE has been booking Dragon for the past year.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Asterisk...

probably thinks Ziggler got buried by Punk and by Orton in all those matches prior to this past Monday.

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by TheHeat on Nov 30, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually like Punk and Orton.

I don’t care who they beat because I want to avoid parity booking, so keep those guys looking strong until the right time for their opponent to beat them.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

False

You just use narrow definitions based solely on your personal preferences in order to inaccurately convey them as indisputable fact.

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Nov 30, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What in the fuck is narrow about it?

Henry was Kayfabe injured, it was a steel cage match, it’s not like there are many more advantages you can give a guy without getting ridiculous about it.

Fact is, Dragon lost clean, in 10 minutes. Dragon loses all the time, and WWE has zero intentions of making him lose less. If you honestly think WWE has plans for a guy they’ve made to job constantly, had the PBP commentator constantly dismiss as a loser, and given zero mic time to cover the fact that he constantly loses. This isn’t an elaborate plan to get Danielson over, it was just a filler match so WWE could kill time for the Henry/Big Show match.

by *Asterisk* on Dec 1, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions  

It's narrow because you use it simply because you like DB and hate Henry.

And since your guy lost to a guy you don’t care for you label it a squash.
Bias in it’s most pure form.

Not a squash.

My porn name is HogOfHawkness

by HeartOfHawkness on Dec 1, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions  

That's not why it's a problem.

Danielson won MitB, that was something WWE decided, not me, Danielson said that he’s cashing it in for Wrestlemania, which was something WWE decided, not me. If WWE expects anyone to take Danielson seriously at all, they would’ve had him steadlily win matches against the lower and mid card members while avoiding having matches with the uppercard so that there’s a wide variety of opponents for him to face when they want him in the main event.

Shoving him in a meaningless Smackdown match against a kayfabe injured Henry where Henry wins clean in 10 minutes is not the way to establish this. Why should WWE expect people to care about MitB or the guy holding it, one of the last credible things they have left, if the guy who won MitB can’t even last 10 minutes against the kayfabe injured champion?

If this was WWE’s plan, they shouldn’t have even bothered to give MitB to Danielson. Much as I like Danielson, it would’ve been better to see them do this with someone they actually intend to push. Even then, it would’ve been stupid to have the MitB winner face a kayfabe injured Henry and lose in 10 minutes no matter who won MitB.

by *Asterisk* on Dec 1, 2011 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

this needs to be green

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"YOU ARE A FACTORY OF SADNESS" Angry Browns fan
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Dec 1, 2011 9:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Phenomenal.

Very well said.

Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.

by Geno Mrosko on Dec 1, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

No, what would've been fantastic would be if Bryan and Henry never wrestled.

If two guys have already wrestled, and the underdog loses clean, they look like a loser. Particularly if the monster champion is already injured and still manages to win cleanly and decisively.

WWE isn’t setting up Danielson to look good, they’re biding time so they can put on another match between Big Show and Henry. Hell, Danielson will probably turn heel on Show by cashing in the briefcase at TLC, and he won’t be over in the slightest, because he’s lost all his important singles matches in the last year, and doesn’t have the mic skills to disguise how often he’s jobbed.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Did you think Rocky Balboa was a shitty loser in the first movie?

The problem is you’re looking at this as strictly an equation. You’re looking at isolated elements in a vacuum (Injury, clean loss) and adding them up to come to a conclusion. You’re not looking at how the match played out or the wider story in Daniel’s arc or in the match itself.

Bryan, in the story continuity of the WWE and in the minds of WWE fans, is not a main event player. You could do the straight Wade Barrett push where he beats 5 guys in a row, or you could do something far more interesting and casting Bryan as a talented, gutsy, kid with heart that has come close but hasn’t pulled the trigger yet. There’s far more drama and story in the latter.

The match helped put him on the level of SmackDown’s main event scene. Of course, a lot of it is in the follow through, but it was a totally helpful and strong showing that had to make a few more Bryan fans last night. Believe it or not, you don’t have to win to look good! Ask Mick Foley. It was one of those stories where it doesn’t matter if you won, it matters if you gave it your all, didn’t give up and gained respect while doing it.

by evisruc on Dec 1, 2011 4:53 AM EST up reply actions  

It's the beginning

of their feud. You can’t have an hour long marathon match to start with. Henry is a monster so he should be beating Bryan quickly. As their matches go on, they’ll get longer and longer before Bryan finally wins – even if it takes all the way to say, Wrestlemania.

by TheCrow4Life on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

That's not how it works at all.

You save the big underdog vs. monster champion match for the right time, you don’t run it over and over again with the underdog getting beaten every time, because the underdog will be seen as a loser in the eyes of the fans, nobody will buy the shows the underdog is on, and the underdog doesn’t get over.

WWE should’ve just not booked that match in the first place, and start giving Dragon wins. Much as I love him, Dragon doesn’t have the mic skills to retain heat after losing repeatedly, wins are pretty much the only thing he can have going for him to get over. But WWE isn’t doing that, they’re intentionally establishing that Dragon can’t beat Henry on his best day so they can run another awful match between Henry and Big Show at TLC.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

There is no

one way to work anything. no one ever said that those two would be the only matches they have for the next few months. you can easily have Bryan knock off everyone else and just not be able to topple Henry until the right time.

by TheCrow4Life on Nov 30, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That's not the point.

This match shouldn’t have happened. It made Dragon look weak, and the only thing it’s foreshadowing is a heel turn that won’t get over at all because Dragon always loses.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Until you see where it leads

how can you possibly say it shouldn’t have happened?

by TheCrow4Life on Nov 30, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Because you don't need to wait and see where something will lead when you've already seen the pattern several times before.

This same argument was used back when the real estate bubble came about, people said that the bubble wouldn’t burst because it was different than every other previous bubble history had ever had, so just wait and see where it would lead.

To the surprise of no one who knew anything about economics, the bubble burst because bubbles always burst.

It’s the same with wrestling, when a bad booking pattern starts, you don’t need to wait and see where it goes if you’ve already seen it several hundred times.

Just last year WWE made Kane world champion, and people said that just because the matches sucked and the feuds were nonsensical, it was best to wait and see where things were going because WWE had a larger plan. To the surprise of no one who knows anything about the way WWE works, there was no larger plan for the Kane title reign, and the title wound up on Edge after a 4 way TLC so Kane didn’t have to eat the pin.

Just a few months ago, Del Rio jobbed clean to Christian on Smackdown, then jobbed to Edge on Wresltemania, then jobbed to Christian again on Extreme Rules. People said that Del Rio was still going places, to wait and see, and that WWE had a larger plan. To the surprise of no one who knows anything about the way WWE works, Del Rio wasn’t over in the slightest by the time he got the title, and WWE had no plans for him.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to predict this shit.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Then pray tell

Why do you bother watching? Is it simply to complain? If you know where everything is going there you don’t need to watch it. The truth is, you’re not 100% sure where any of this is going, so you keep watching in the hopes that it turns out good. Otherwise you’re just a glutton for punishment.

by TheCrow4Life on Nov 30, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

If I knew it was heading in a good direction, I would watch more often.

I love wrestling, I love watching wrestling, it doesn’t mean that I have to like what’s going on.

Often, I know exactly where an angle’s headed, but I watch anyway because I know it’ll be great. For instance, Angle vs. Benoit at the 2003 Royal Rumble, everyone, myself included, knew Angle would win that match, but I was hyped for it, looked forward to it, and loved it because I knew the match would be fucking awesome.

If I knew that WWE was going to be putting on an awesome match anytime soon, I’d automatically watch the show, but I won’t stick around until program quality gets consistent, or Michael Cole leaves WWE forever. Until then, I’m content drifting.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Everything about Henry was money on this show. Great promo backstage with Teddy Long. Great match. It’s time to move on to the next one, Asterisk.

by Jon Knapik on Nov 30, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not moving on.

Henry is awful, and they’re going to run another match between Henry and Big Show at the next PPV. Danielson will probably cash in his briefcase at the show, but he won’t get over at all, because MitB champions never get over if they aren’t given any credibility to back up their reign.

Not to mention, out of all the people WWE could’ve had steamroll the roster in the last year, they pick Mark Henry and Kane. Imagine how much better WWE would be right now if Sheamus killed everyone back in 2010, or Wade Barrett actually won matches while in Nexus, or Del Rio beat Edge clean via submission, and proceeded to tap everyone on the roster until the time was right for him to be taken down. It would’ve been a hell of a lot better to give all this heat to those guys than waste it on Mark Henry and Kane.

by *Asterisk* on Nov 30, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd rec this 15 times if I could

Maslow's theory of higher needs does not apply to Patrick Willis. He only has two needs: tackling people and finding people to tackle.

by 49erLou on Dec 1, 2011 2:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Wrestling isn't a...

Sport. Just because the Phillies will usually beat the Astros because they’re a better team doesn’t mean the Bryan Daniels of the world should always beat the Mark Henrys.

Not to mention, even though Dragon’s a million times better than Henry at everything, Dragon still lost cleanly and decisively in a relatively short amount

by Sergio Hernandez on Dec 1, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm mad for more reasons than that.

The Dragon/Henry match shouldn’t have been booked for this show in the first place.

Dragon is the MitB holder, he has no heat because he’s lost all his matches, and doesn’t have the mic ability to cover up how often he jobs (i.e. CM Punk), winning matches is pretty much all he has going for him if he wants to get over.

So, rather than having Dragon job to a kayfabe injured Henry clean in less than 10 minutes, they should keep Dragon as far away from Henry as possible, and have Dragon regularly beat the guys on the lower and mid cards until Dragon actually gets some heat. Then you can have the Dragon/Henry match.

Doing it now just made Dragon look like he was completely out of Henry’s league. Why is the audience supposed to care about an eventual Dragon/Henry match if Dragon can’t last 10 minutes against a Kayfabe injured Henry?

The fact is, WWE doesn’t plan on getting Danielson over as a babyface. This whole thing was just a filler program for Henry/Big Show III. Dragon will probably turn heel by cashing in the case on Show or Henry or somebody, and to the surprise of no one, won’t get over because he’s been booked to be an enormous jobber.

Why are you defending this? You’ve obviously been watching wrestling for a long time, I assume even longer than me. These tricks should be really obvious to a seasoned fan.

by *Asterisk* on Dec 1, 2011 1:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Because I didn't view...

The match like you did.

I saw a match where a small guy who hadn’t been winning matches nearly beat the unstoppable beast of a champion who had to hit his finisher off the top rope to win.

You saw a wrestler you think is great lose a match to a wrestler you think sucks.

by Sergio Hernandez on Dec 1, 2011 1:53 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

No.

I saw a match that shouldn’t have been booked that was only created because Vince McMahon wanted to parity book the guy with the MitB case.

It isn’t about the fact that the guy with the MitB case is Bryan Danielson, if they booked anybody in Danielson’s position, even if it was a guy I hate like Kane, Mark Henry, or the Miz, and put them in the exact same storyline, I’d say that the only way to handle a guy promising to cash in MitB at Wrestlemania is to book them to beat all the jobbers and mid carders on the roster, and have them avoid facing the main eventers until they make their cash in so that the MitB guy can gain heat.

Sure, I probably wouldn’t care as much if WWE was running this storyline with Kane, Mark Henry, or Miz in Danielson’s role, but it wouldn’t make the storyline good. It’d suck no matter who’s champion and who has the MitB briefcase, and Vince McMahon is an idiot for booking this.

by *Asterisk* on Dec 1, 2011 2:00 AM EST up reply actions  

I can't believe I'm saying this

but I actually enjoyed that Hornswaggle won the battle royal. It made me laugh.

Having said that, I fast forwarded through most of the show. God damn I love my DVR.

by Kyle Rancourt on Nov 30, 2011 1:53 AM EST reply actions  

Randy saver of wwe

Again Randy has saved this flop smackdown show from becoming the worst. Apart from Randy I like CM PUNK very much just imagine what will happen if both Randy and CM PUNK gone from wwe
.Well I have no idea why they are still keeping HENRY as the world champion for the last 2 months since he became champion he failed to deliver even a single good match . He even make mathes with ORTON and BRIAN booring.

by medigear@vsnl.net on Nov 30, 2011 5:04 AM EST reply actions  

Why WAS it about Christmas?

I mean, did I just miss a month? We’ll have a Valentines-themed show next week, just so they can recreate the Edge/Lita bed scene with Ziggler and Guerrero.

Agreed on Orton, though. He needs to change his character if he wants to have a half-interesting feud – rather than incessantly signalling his desire to punt his rivals in the head – but he’s been having great matches and, as ya say, losing some o’ them.

by bensix on Nov 30, 2011 6:49 AM EST reply actions  

He's working on an evolution of his Viper character

Unfortunately, the Viper character doesn’t have a lot of places to go to. If there’s one thing I liked, it was when he was all about competition; when he’s in the running for the title, he does a bit where he says that “your best just isn’t good enough,” and I think that is where his character should go. Make him be a serious competitor who is in it to win matches and titles, and keep the vicious streak. It would make more sense than him being suddenly light-hearted or downright nasty as a babyface.

by Michael Jong on Nov 30, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I thought it was a little strange having a Christmas special in November. Maybe it was because of the location in a big wrestling market? The whole thing seemed silly from the get-go for me because of the time between this special and Christmas.

Rhodes/Booker T stuff was really great. Hornswoggle and Sheamus in the battle royale was funny. Henry/Bryan was really exciting. Am I remembering wrong or did they cut away from the cage match for a commercial? That sucked.

by Jon Knapik on Nov 30, 2011 10:49 AM EST reply actions  

I enjoyed it

It was a episonde for the kids. You have to admit watching Otunga sell getting hit in the head with a cardboard like he got hit was a brick was awesome.

Players who should be in the Hall of Fame: Pat TIllman, Dwight White, Donnie Shell, L.C. Greenwood, Ray Guy, Steve Tasker, Jack Butler, Greg Lloyd, Andy Russell, Cris Carter, Kevin Greene, Curtis Martin, Willie Roaf, Andre Reed and Jerry Kramer
"YOU ARE A FACTORY OF SADNESS" Angry Browns fan
Canal Chronicles resident Steelers Fan

by WVPiratesfan on Nov 30, 2011 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

The Bigger the Hype....

The Bigger The Dump! And this was one major dump. Enough to back up every bowl from here to TIM-Buck-Too!

Scott Druyan

by matz57 on Nov 30, 2011 1:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I’m usually quite the optimist when it comes to wrestling…but this was AWFUL. Unbelievably awful. Segments that a three year old would frown at and a handful of useless, dull matches.

Signed, Pick'em Champs 2011-2012: Michael Jordanesque in our picking skills.
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by mountaineers101 on Nov 30, 2011 2:45 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think Vince is acting like a big child...

I think he’s more like an old man who still thinks things that were funny when he was a kid are funny now, not realizing how stupid or socially unacceptable they truly are.

by Dedywre on Dec 1, 2011 7:13 PM EST reply actions  

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