WWE: Is Vince McMahon no longer the pro wrestling genius he once was?
That's a fair question to ask now, right? Vince McMahon, the man who is undoubtedly responsible for professional wrestling as we know it today, the man who has crushed all those who dared to run up against him, may have finally found the one opponent he cannot defeat.
Father time.
It had to happen sooner or later. Vinny Mac is 66-years-old and the hands of time speed up as you get older, not slow down. How far removed from this generation is he? Well, it's gotten to the point that those within WWE, the very organization he built into an empire, apparently believe he's completely lost touch with what does and does not work in pro wrestling.
Here's a bit from Wrestling Observer on the state of WWE backstage after this past Monday night's (Oct. 31) horrifically booked episode of Raw:
Wrestlers were texting each other all night after the show, and there was a stronger feeling than usual that Vince McMahon has completely lost his ability to successfully promote professional wrestling. More and more, comparisons are being made to Vince Russo's booking in TNA. Like TNA, WWE buyrates continue to fall year-by-year, and Raw ratings in the last three months have somewhat consistently fallen from hour one to hour two, something that happened all the time in TNA but used to almost never happen in WWE. Ironically, Smackdown ratings continue to average above a 2.0, higher than ever on Syfy and dating back to the week Mark Henry won the title. Besides pushing a new person on top, the show is also slower-paced and features longer matches and simpler storylines, largely because McMahon spends so much time tweaking Raw that he has little time to devote to "fixing" Smackdown.
We made reference multiple times to Raw being one of the worst booked shows of the year and it's no surprise the talent also recognized as much and are finally making note of how ridiculous it's been.
It's gotten to the point that McMahon is more concerned with getting over on Twitter than he is with promoting a good wrestling product. Instead of letting it grow organically, he's trying to force it down our collective throats. Which wouldn't actually be so bad if it was reserved to certain situations that fit the bill. But that's not what's happening.
Instead, he's using it in storylines it has no place being in. Take, for example, The Rock's decision to team up with John Cena. Instead of booking Miz and Truth as strong heels that Cena simply couldn't handle on his own and would require a big gun to handle, they squashed Miz and Truth and had Rock announce that the only reason he would accept Cena's offer to tag together at Survivor Series was because "The Great One's" followers asked him to.
They actually had Rock say that he would team with Cena because his followers pleaded with him to do so. This makes so little sense on so many levels if you think about it enough your brain will literally dropkick your skull to get you stop.
Here's why:
The first thing they did when Rock came back was build a rivalry with Cena. That means the fanbase would inevitably pick sides, as is always the case in pro wrestling because, well, that's the point of having a match. So if followers of The Rock picked his side over Cena, why on Earth would they tweet him to team with someone they likely hate? And why would Rock just blindly agree to go along with it? That just makes him look worse to the very people he's supposed to be rallying for.As Rock stated in his promo, both he and Cena represent two different generations. Rock's decision to team with his arch nemesis was, for all intents and storyline purposes, a betrayal of his own generation, the generation that absolutely cannot stand Cena. Again, this wouldn't be a problem if he had a good enough reason to do so and if Miz and Truth were booked properly, but they were squashed and Rock's reasoning was Twitter.
And that's just the main program. That's not even getting into the rest of the show.
Take CM Punk, who continues to look as weak as he ever has. He's lost at every pay-per-view since Summerslam, yet the plan is to put the belt on him. So how do they go about getting him a title shot at Survivor Series? Instead of actually having him legitimately win a match, they put him against Mark Henry, have him lose on a smoz finish via disqualification, and finally, after chasing it for so long, John Laurinaitis tells him he can have his title shot as long as Alberto Del Rio agrees to it.
Uh, what?
Okay, that's fine. But then they have Del Rio go for 15 minutes against Big Show where he, the WWE champion, gets pinned clean, and Punk comes waltzing out to take advantage of "ADR" in his weakened state. Punk grabs Del Rio, puts him in the Anaconda Vice (coolest name for a submission hold ever?) and won't let go until he agrees to finally give Punk the shot.
For starters, that's a heel move but Punk tries to occupy that space between a babyface and a heel, so he can sort of get away with it. But what's the justification for having him earn the title shot this way? There is absolutely no reason for any fan on Earth to think that Punk has any chance of winning the belt at Survivor Series because he hasn't won a match since 'Nam. To make matters worse, Del Rio has been booked as one of the weakest champions in recent memory. His reign is reminiscent of Chris Benoit's run with the world heavyweight title back in 2004. You know he's a stopgap to get the belt on Punk but they book him into the ground by treating him second rate. Hell, Punk vs. Del Rio won't even be the main event at Survivor Series.
As stated by Bryan Alvarez, Smackdown has become twice as good as Raw on most weeks and the likely reason for that is because McMahon has a lot less to do with the daily operations of that show. That's led to a product that has essentially gone back to the basics.
Take the Mark Henry vs. Big Show feud, for example. Henry took Show out by busting up his leg months ago. Show comes back from said injury and wants his revenge. At this point, Henry is the world heavyweight champion, boom, you've got yourself a feud for the title. Simple as that. What adds to it is when they do things like have Show win matches clean on Smackdown in the weeks leading up to the pay-per-view, including laying Henry out with his big punch finisher, to make fans think he has a legitimate shot of winning the match and so they should pay for the event to see if that's what transpires.
That's booking made easy. Smackdown has become that show and the ratings have reflected as much. Sure, there are other factors, such as the winter months and less competition on Friday night, but there's no question that it has become the better of the two flagship WWE shows.
And, as stated, that's likely because of the lack of involvement by Vince McMahon.
We want to believe he's not off his rocker and he's still the genius he once was. But it's getting increasingly difficult to ignore the heaping pile of evidence to the contrary. If Hulk Hogan is burying the TNA roster to keep himself over as the top babyface, McMahon is burying his roster to get his company trending on Twitter.
If that's not the mark of a madman, I don't know what is. And the sad part? We have no idea when this will end. We thought it might be when the Rock made his return but his first promo in months, pre-taped or not, was a huge bust. There are multiple reasons for that and all of them revolve, in some way, around McMahon.
It's prudent to bring up Vince Russo here. Russo, a brilliant creative mind in his own right, is responsible for many of the innovative ideas that made the Attitude Era such a booming success. His revolutionary style of booking was timed perfectly with the rise of Stone Cold Steve Austin and he consistently wrote scripts that blew away the fanbase on a weekly basis. Ratings soared, the business exploded and the WWE surpassed its arch rival at the time, WCW.
Then Russo skipped town for more power with the chief competitor and while the WWE continued to thrive, WCW went to hell. Storylines made little sense and it was clear that Russo was obsessed with swerving fans just for the sake of swerving them.
As it turned out, Russo had a filter while he was with WWE. That filter, for the most part, was Vince McMahon. He cherry-picked what he felt would work best and implemented it accordingly. Once the filter was gone, Russo had no one to discard his more insane ideas and before you knew it, B-movie actor David Arquette was the world heavyweight champion and WCW died a slow, painful death.
It seems now the tables have turned. Well, Russo is still crazy and still very much needs a filter but it would seem McMahon is now in the same boat.
Sadly, neither of them actually have one. And so we, the fans, are left with TNA and WWE in the sorry states they are both in right now. What's even more sad is there is no hope for reprieve any time soon.
But we'll keep coming back, gluttons for punishment that we are. Come to think of it, I guess that makes us the crazy ones, right?
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Who, though?
What talent legitimately makes you want to turn on the TV each week and watch because you think they will entertain you? Bad booking will kill good talent every single time. CM Punk is the best example of this.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
by Geno Mrosko on Nov 2, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Even bad booking doesn't prevent me from wanting to see good talent.
Bad commentary is what’s killing me on WWE. I’d love to watch more often, even with the shitty storylines. Hell, I found joys in the McMahons & Spirit Squad vs. DX feud, and that was objectively horrible. What keeps me from watching WWE is Michael Cole.
I haven’t watched one episode of RAW or Smackdown since WM XXVII. It’s not just that Michael Cole has no clue how to call a match, it’s not just that Cole consistently shits on all the talent that doesn’t have more political power than him, it’s Cole’s tone of voice. Michael Cole is like some sort of anti-Morgan Freeman, no matter what’s being shown on your TV, if Cole’s voicing over it, you’ll hate it. The fact that Cole doesn’t even attempt to put over the talent, and actively shits on everyone without the power to stop him just amplified how unpleasant Cole has always been, and how bad WWE’s booking has been over the last decade whenever Vince McMahon writes the storylines.
I’d probably still watch RAW, as shitty as it’s been, if Cole was off the booth, but as long as Cole and his stupid fucking heel character stay on TV in any capacity, I’m not watching WWE again until something amazing happens, ala Cena/Punk. Hell, the only reason I watched WM XXVII is because I had a gut feeling HHH and Undertaker would be important, seeing as how HHH and Undertaker looked to be keeping Vince far the fuck away from their storyline. I was right, HHH/Taker kicked a metric ton of ass, and everything Vince touched was utter shit. Sadly, Vince decided to work his hand on the whole fucking card.
I completely agree with the announcing
A good match, with bad announcing, is lessened. A bad match, with bad announcing, is complete crap.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 2, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Cole is the worst kind of heel
He draws a ton of heat but it’s “turn the channel” heat. He reminds me of a snobby ass high school kid that talks shit because his dad is the school principle so no one does anything about it.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
This is one of my biggest questions with current WWE.
How much of Cole’s awfulness is Cole, and how much of it is just him being a mouthpiece for Vince? It’s already unfortunate that he says many of the things he does, and its even worse if he’s doing it of his own volition.
by The so-called Beautiful on Nov 3, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Given that J.R., King, Josh Matthews, Paul Heyman, Mick Foley, CM Punk, and JBL all managed to be awesome at the desk with Vince barking orders into their ear, and even crappy commentators such as Todd Grisham, Matt Striker, and Mike Adamle managed to be exponentially less awful than Cole even on their worst days with Vince yelling in their ears, I’m putting 80% of the blame on Cole.
The other 20% is for Vince thinking its’ a good idea to have a heel PBP commentator in the first place.
I'm a Cole Miner
I think Michael Cole is funny. He does go overboard sometimes, like when he was trashing the Divas matches. Even though most people were thinking that, it is kind of a respect thing that you wouldn’t blatantly say.
I can’t stand Jerry Lawler as a good guy announcer. He is ignorant and pompous. He is completely blind to when good guys bend the rules.
by Manolo Has Pizzazz on Nov 3, 2011 4:18 AM EDT up reply actions
How the hell can you be a Cole Miner?
What the hell is it about Michael Cole that you find funny? Better yet, how the hell do you find it excuseable to completely bury everyone with less power than you?
Can you honestly name me one match improved by Michael Cole’s commentary that wasn’t a complete abortion upon the art of wrestling like NXT season 3? Even from back when he wasn’t a heel, can you name me one match he actually improved.
Do you find it amusing watching Bryan Danielson kill himself to have a great match while Cole calls him a “NEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD” or “FOOL, YOU FOOL,” all the while to absolutely no crowd reaction because Cole killed whatever heat Danielson had sometime this January?
Can you tell me how it’s acceptable for a PBP commentator to completely shit on the product for two hours only to completely change character every few minutes to talk about how great WWE’s business is?
Can you tell me how your fine with a guy forgetting the name of CM Punk’s Anaconda Vice in the biggest match of the year, or how it’s acceptable to call a German Suplex a “throw?”
You can’t. Such reasons don’t fucking exist, because Cole is terrible in every way, and should be fired into a Somalian pirate ship via 18th century cannon.
Sir Michael Cole is undefeated at Wrestlemania
I think Cole has lots of funny one-liners every episode. He does get carried away too often. If he could just spit a line and learn to quit while he is ahead, then I think he would be much better. Instead, he just beats things to death sometimes.
Better yet, how the hell do you find it excuseable to completely bury everyone with less power than you?
I view all these guys as characters, not real people. I have no idea what the real Michael Cole is like as a person. I don’t think there is any justification to imply that he purposely buries people to be malicious. You have to look at the producer of the show. If Cole crossed a line with his antics, they certainly wouldn’t allow him to do the same thing week after week.
Even from back when he wasn’t a heel, can you name me one match he actually improved.
I wasn’t a fan until he turned heel. He was bland and forgettable before that. Personally, I have never reflected upon how ‘great’ announcing was for any sporting events I watch. I recognize what gets on my nerves, but I have never really sat back and said, “Wow, that was dynamite announcing.” That is why Cole’s lack of technical knowledge doesn’t really bother me.
I do think the Danielson stuff is overboard. It was funny the first few weeks, but now it is just counterproductive.
Did you have the same contempt for Jerry Lawler when he completely buried the Otunga/McGillicutty tag team for being boring? That immediately stuck out to me when I was watching. I was kind of in shock that Lawler dumped on them so bad.
by Manolo Has Pizzazz on Nov 3, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
It's perfectly justifiable to hate Cole for burying those guys on commentary without knowing what he's like personally.
Wrestling is a dangerous line of work, people can get injured at any time for no reason. To have the PBP commentator completely overwhelm everyone else on the table for the sole purpose of burying 90% of the roster is insulting, vulgar, offensive, and completely lacking in taste considering what these guys do?
Imagine if someone had a shoot injury that really fucked them up, and Cole buried them for it? You don’t have to, becuase Cole did exactly that when he buried Lawler after Lawler got injured by Mark Henry in that blown table spot with his “anal bleeding” comment. Considering that even in his matches, Cole’s never taken a bump in his life, he should be beaten within an inch of his life before being tossed off a bridge for acting like that, character or not. Fuck him.
As for Lawler’s comment, Otunga and McGillicutty suck. I don’t give a shit if they get buried, they never should’ve been on TV in the first place.
Bryan Danielson is the best technical wrestler in the world, a guy who works his ass off to have a great match every night in any situation, and could legitimately be a huge asset to any company that books him properly and treats him seriously. There’s a world of difference between Cole burying the best wrestler in the company, and Lawler burying the two most useless guys on the roster.
I agree somewhat.. Cole does get me to laugh sometimes. Lawler is the one that needs to be taken out back & shot. It started with his damn “puppies” and continues now. I have no clue how he’s held his job for this long. He constantly bags on Vicky to the point that anyone over weight should be ready to choke him.. and then every heel is lessened because of him. Heel or Face color guys can get people over no matter who it is.. this guy just out right sucks. Ventura, Macho, Heenan.. they could get the story over to the people… Lawler makes you wanna punch him in the mouth. I think WWe should get some fresh blood in their announce crew. No Cole or Lawler… Not Booker who thinks he’s still 5x champ.. who will say the same 5 things over & over. He has no capacity to bridge things together. They need an Arn Anderson maybe to come out and announce as color and maybe turn Striker into a PBP..
by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 3, 2011 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Striker was bad enough during his last run.
Do you really want to see him come back in any capacity after his utter disaster of a performance on the 2011 Royal Rumble?
Sure, Striker would be an improvement over Cole, but at this point in time, Glenn Beck would be an improvement over Michael Cole.
Striker certainly needs work.. no one is saying that.. but he has a firm knowledge of the moves & could be a great play by play man.. he’d have Gorilla knowledge. Him as color.. no way.. he can’t sell the stories very well & trying to play up being a heel or face isn’t for him either. But if he solely was PBP.. he could be a good one. He’d need time.. but hell, Cole has been doing this for 7 yrs or so. Striker could be a good one.. he’s a former wrestler who sounds legit in his broadcasting vocabulary. He’s not some outsider like Adamle or many others.. and he’s not the normal wrestler with limited vocab & trying to play up a character. I think he’s rough around the edges, but with time.. could grow.
by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 3, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Striker as PBP could work
I agree that Striker would be good as just PBP. You are right about his vocabulary. He could easily create interesting descriptions of what is happening. If he would eliminate the long winded history lessons, he could be real solid.
Making fun of Vickie as being fat even after she lost weight really shut me off to Lawler. I’m all for fat jokes, but not when someone has obviously put the effort in and the results are showing. For example, the JR fat jokes don’t bother me since he has been fat for years. There are so many other things he could make fun of about her, so continuing to harp on her weight is just a jerk move.
by Manolo Has Pizzazz on Nov 3, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
They tried. Stryker kept screwing up facts and added nothing.
But you can check Botchamania for that.
Cole is terrible. When they’re arguing over something outside the match and he starts screeching, I fast forward through the match.
Try watching MNF and imagine Jaws and Gruden arguing over everything, or Collinsworth burying the defense. ESPN would yank them because people would turn out in droves. Commentating should add to the action and heighten the drama, partially as a shared experience.
When you get the meandering annoyance that is Michael Cole, whether or not he’s a character, he detracts from the match. I can’t enjoy something that I know the commentator isn’t even remotely interested in watching or just has a shrieking contempt for. It’s the equivalent of someone having a loud conversation on their cell phone while you’re trying to enjoy the movie.The bigger problem is that there is no show without Cole. He annoys on both shows, whether he’s making fun of Josh or Booker T. Why? What is the point?
And Otunga and McGillicutty have always been boring. Name one promo or one match where either of them shined. So Lawler calling them boring is calling a spade a spade. But he only did this a few times. Cole has done nothing but bury Bryan.
JR has not even relented when he thought something was terrible, “Mercifully, it’s over,” or “This match is bowling shoes ugly.”
Cole can’t decide what he wants to be, and Lawler is out there for some reason. Both are failures.
"Pain or damage don't end the world; or despair, or F*ckin beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment coming. Stand it like a man, and give some back." -Al Swearengen
I must have missed Stiker as PBP
I don’t enjoy the arguing between Cole and Lawler either. I assume that Cole’s insults are supposed to be comedy. They often make me laugh. Obviously, not everyone finds it funny.
Lawler only called Otunga and McGillicutty boring a few times, because they immediately lost the titles. Then they had some matches with Lawler and disbanded in like two weeks. He didn’t really have a chance to keep on them. I was just pointing that out because I felt that Lawler did it in the same jerky manner that Cole insults Bryan.
If someone is going to hate on Cole, do it for his commentator skills. I think the producer is to blame for not keeping his overwhelming heel personality in check. Sometimes I wonder if they ever watch a replay of Raw.
Who would you choose as your announce team for Raw? Don’t include JR. I am curious what new blood you choose.
by Manolo Has Pizzazz on Nov 5, 2011 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I tune into RAW
For Killings, Miz, Ziggler and Christian. Their work, at least for me, transcends the booking. They entertain and hit their spots. I enjoy watching them.
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
by Jesse Holland on Nov 2, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And I tune into RAW for Vicki.
That’s right, I’m not afraid to say it out loud on the Internet.
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by McKinley B. Noble on Nov 2, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Excuse you
It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail.
by Jesse Holland on Nov 2, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing wrong with that.. as I stated the other day.. I really wanna go back door on her just to hear her say “Excuse me… Excuse me”…. and also there is something that makes me wanna bang the sh*t outta her. Maybe its the cougar thing?
by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 3, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Same, although they’re not what I was used to seeing prior to the “WWE.” Pretty big Punk/Orton mark.
"Don't be limited by fixed ideas nor by some trifling common sense...break the standards!"
by The One Who Wears The Crown on Nov 2, 2011 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
It's been obvious for awhile now that Vince has lost his mind.
Every good storyline WWE has done for years now has either been on a program that Vince McMahon doesn’t care about (Smackdown, ECW, the first season of NXT), or it’s been done by the wrestlers who were given creative control.
Remember that awesome HHH/Benoit/HBK feud in 2004? Paul Heyman built up Benoit on Smackdown before his RAW run, and our good friends from DX were given unlimited creative freedom to work on their feud.
Remember that awesome HHH/Batista storyline, and the fall of Evolution? HHH was given unlimited creative freedom to work on Evolution.
Remember the rise of ECW storylines on RAW & Smackdown before the ‘05 &’06 ONS shows? Paul Heyman still had ECW’s book back then, even when on RAW.
Remember how every storyline Shawn Michaels was in between ‘07 and ’10 was incredibly well constructed, with logical beginnings and endings connecting everything he was involved in from the ’07 Royal Rumble to WM XXVI? Michaels is the most infamous politics player in WWE history, there’s no way he’d let anyone but himself touch his storylines when he wanted to wrap up his career, and thank god he did.
Remember how JBL of all people got a really well booked end to his career and his character?
Remember how Batista was really awesome as his contract started winding down?
Remember how C.M. Punk was in the best match the wrestling world has seen in God knows how long only a month before his contract would expire?
Who do you think wrote those guys storylines?
Vince McMahon’s mind has been slipping since 2001. I don’t know when it completely hit the gutter, but it gets worse every year. Vince always had flaws as a commentator, businessman and a booker, but it was only in the last century that they grew large enough to really damage his company. I’m honestly surprised it took people this long to notice, seeing as how the only good storylines on RAW have been done involving guys with enough political leverage to book it themselves.
You're dead on the money
and that’s what made the promo from the Rock so maddening. He’s supposedly got creative control over his character and how they use him. It’s crazy to me that he would sign off on this shit unless they’re planning a major swerve at Survivor Series. Even then, it was put together poorly and I’m wondering if Rock isn’t as connected to the pulse as we want to think he is.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Remember tho.. they booked him into a corner.. he’s gotta somehow make a team w/ Cena of all people.. who could logically promo that piece of shit?
by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 3, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Rock needs to turn on Cena and punk him out during the match
When Mike Ditka calculates pi it's decimal representation ends.
by Lester A. Wiltfong Jr. on Nov 3, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It'd never work, Rock is never getting over as a heel when he faces Cena.
Hell, NAMBLA member at this point would have difficulty getting over as a heel if he faced Cena. Jesus Christ turning on Hitler has a better chance at getting over as a heel than Rocky would if he turned on Cena.
Normally anyone who uses Hitler in their argument instantly loses the argument. However, this time.. its a winner.
by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 4, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That year-long HBK arc
where he went from retiring Flair to feuding with Batista to feuding with Chris Jericho was pretty much amazing storytelling.
I agree that Vince doesn’t have it anymore, but he is 66 and has been hit in the head with a chair quite a few times. There isn’t a surprise that he is losing it.
I don’t hold out much hope for HHH and Stephanie, but there is the chance that HHH turns 2018 WWE into something resembling 1985 NWA, so let’s hope for that.
by Razztopia on Nov 3, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Vince is Al Davis
He’s out of touch with reality. If the WWE board really wanted to do something, they’d make a powerplay and force him out. Though since he’s the majority stock holder I don’t think that’s possible.
I like that analogy.
Davis had an image of what he wanted the Raiders to be — which is basically what the Philadelphia Eagles actually are — but he had no idea how to make it happen because he was completely out of touch with how to scout talent at the NFL level. McMahon has this image in his head of what he wants WWE to be but it’s so far gone from what fans will pay to watch that business sucks, just like the Raiders have sucked for all these years. It’s sad more than anything.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
which is basically what the Philadelphia Eagles actually are
& we’re going to show your Bears our speed on MNF, thank god we don’t have to play on that piece of crap field of yours this time. It shouldn’t even be legal.
I'd rather not break this thread into football discussion
but the Eagles and Bears have played close for years. My hope is the same applies this year and we come out on the winning side of it. My feeling is that we won’t but I felt that last year and we won. So we’ll see.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
Well done, Geno.
Well done.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
On another note, I disagree with you on Benoit.
Chris Benoit was one of the only well booked champions RAW has had this decade. Benoit won the title clean in a fantastic match with a fantastic storyline on the biggest PPV of the year, and won every subsequent PPV defense clean. Sure, he only ever faced HHH and Shawn Michaels in the main event, and every other one of his title matches was in the midcard behind the DX golden boys, but HHH and HBK always lost clean to Benoit, mostly via submission, and never got a win over Benoit while he was champion. Hell, HHH tapped clean in the main event of Mania, and Michaels tapped to the Sharpshooter in Canada in Benoit’s hometown. Benoit won every PPV he was on between September 2003 and August 2004, including winning the Royal Rumble as the #1 entry.
Hell, the only RAW champions not named “Triple H” who got the kind of treatment Benoit got were Cena and Batista. Sure, Benoit’s reign could’ve been better. Benoit should’ve had a feud with Ric Flair instead of Kane to play up his Horseman days, and Benoit should’ve been a regular contender after his title run ended instead of the once in a blue moon title shots he got on free TV, but by the standards WWE has treated every other RAW champion, and even by the standards of the average promotion, Benoit had a very good title reign, had very good matches, looked very credible, and very prestigious. Compounded by the way WWE ordinarily treats men with little promo ability under 6 ft 4, and it’s a miracle he got it as good as he did.
Though it wasn’t a miracle. As I mentioned earlier, HHH, HBK, and Paul Heyman handled virtually all of the booking leading to Benoit’s main event run. More importantly, Vince never killed the push halfway through. Even though Benoit was short and not very good at promos, Benoit had the best physique on the RAW roster, and nothing is more important to Vince than his insane bodybuilder fetish.
Hell, how else do you think Benoit got so many main event runs, submission victories over Steve Austin, The Rock, HHH, HBK, John Cena, and a position on the locker room court despite not being a traditional WWE guy?
It all started to go to shit with Stephanie years ago
They had Stephanie behind the scenes working with the advertisers and that was when they were killing it, even with her doing double duty as an on screen character.
Then Vince put Daddy’s little girl in charge of the booking and that’s when it all began to go to shit. As Stephanie became ascendent in the company, their booking became horrendous.
Even Shane fucked off. Think about that: SHANE MCMAHON TURNED HIS BACK ON HIS BIRTHRIGHT AND LEFT THE COMPANY. I have no doubt that Shane was the McMahon that should have been running the show
I hated Stephanie in the main event of 'Mania X8 as much as the next guy, but this isn't the case.
Stephanie’s position as head of creative is, for all intense and purposes, a name to fill in a box on a form. Vince McMahon remains, just as he always was, the total lord and master of 90% of WWE’s storylines. Can you honestly name one time you heard of a specific storyline that had Stephanie listed as the driving force behind the project that didn’t involve her as a character? Stephanie actually prevented a pregnancy/incest storyline for ’Mania X8 between her and Vince, for which she has my eternal gratitude.
Hell, the one time Stephanie spent hands on time as a booker was one of the best booked periods WWE had this decade, because she left Paul Heyman in almost total control of Smackdown, and didn’t intervene hardly at all. Sure, she was on TV every week for two years, but the storylines were logical, the wrestling was awesome, and new stars such as Brock Lesnar, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, and John Cena actually got properly developed. Sure, you had the nonsensical Al Wilson angle, but Paul Heyman and Stephanie were given orders from the top to have a more outrageous and sexual storyline to increase viewership, so Heyman put two unimportant non-wrestlers into a meaningless storyline that allowed them to copiously display their one useful asset to the audience.
Guess who gave the orders for the Al Wilson storyline?
Even nowadays, Stephanie pretty much lets Michael Hayes run the boat on Smackdown: and as bad as Hayes’ “I’m more of a nigger than you” comments towards Mark Henry were, Hayes still books logical storylines for Smackdown, and helps people get over even when they’re not trusted commodities. It doesn’t make up for being an enormous asshole, but as long as someone can do their job well, and help other people with their jobs, it doesn’t really matter how much of an asshole they are personally.
As for Shane, he left because he wanted Vince’s job, not Stephanie’s. Shane realized Vince isn’t stepping down until he dies, and Shane didn’t want to wait for that.
Steph is flawed. She constantly books herself as a Mary Sue, has little knowledge of the wrestling industry, and even less knowledge on how normal human beings live their lives, but to say that anyone but Vince is the real problem given all we know now is just fooling yourself.
I know you were just illustrating a point
but let’s not use the N word going forward. Thanks. Love your contributions in the comments.
Forget it Donny, you're out of your element.
I thought Hayes was replaced. And he does Raw & SD & then reports directly to Steph. Which btw.. I like Steph.. I wish she were on my tv more often. Also, someone said something about Vince and his chair shots to the head.. I think we are on to something… maybe the Alpha Male caught something like Syph from Kelly Kelly? Maybe its eating his brain since he probably didn’t get treated.
by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 3, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Is Vince getting a check from Twatter?
Because that stuff is seriously annoying.
Release...the KITTIES!
I was wondering that too. Why in the hell is he getting Twitter so much biz? I get he can sell his characters 24/7 now & the fans can have access at all times.. but come on.. these guys are on the road working so much already.. now they have to do twitter. If Twitter were a public company I know Vince would by into it big.. but its private.. so maybe there is a contract of some sort.. they get a ton of free advertisement.
by Rawuncutnxrated on Nov 3, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Stepping down would be nice
but who would be put in charge? Would the tag team division improve? Vince like his counterpart Russo need to be taken down a peg or a dozen. Look at TNA now that Pritchard/Bischoff are in charge the booking has toned down on the swerves but it is still a long way away from perfect the same needs to be done with Vince have him be taken down to creative consultant and let Hayes and a returned Heyman book the matches and push talent to respective heights. Wrestling is an ego driven business where folks don’t think their #$%% stinks so we may have to sit through this until the bottom falls out.
I think it really goes back to the cliche
That he’s at his best when he’s competing and has his back up against the wall. And that hasn’t been the case for Vince in a decade.
Its to the point that I blame TNA almost as much for not taking advantage of the opportunity they have to actually create some competition and make wrestling fun again.
Writer (and a handsome one at that),
And the Valley Shook
In order to answer this question, I would need to be convinced that Vince McMahon once was a pro wrestling genius. He has been very successful. Is that because he is a genius, or because he was lucky, or because he successfully exploited other people’s talent and then took credit?
It’s not like this is the only period during which the WWF/E has produced a terrible product.
The realization is the fans or rather the IWC can bitch and complain about the product but if you still watch it then it doesn’t say much about the fan themselves. I’ll be the first one to say I am one of those but I’m about fed up with watching both WWE and TNA altogether since they are both companies that are ran horrendously. WWE has ALOT of flaws, Cole is the worst commentator which shows Vince’s judgment of keeping him out there is just awful. Add the fact that he has all these yes men like Johnny boy that he brought in as an on air talent. Why? The reason is cause he doesn’t have a clue of what people want. Only sheeple will keep coming back and defending it saying it’s the best promotion in the world. Or my favorite excuse, it’s better than TNA. Yes that may be true but not by much. They have the talent much like TNA to make the company be as good as any other one but when you have Linda running for office, with Vince toning down alot of WHAT HAS WORKED BEFORE then you are going to get the same bullshit week in and week out. How many times can Cena “overcome” the odds and make the heels look like shit? You have to establish the heels to look good enough to take on the Golden Boys. Rather than having them not be able to take on one face makes the heels look weak in general. Both Truth and Mizzy are very entertaining but it does no good when Cena makes them look like chumps. Just about anyone who doesn’t live under a rock knows him and Orton are the be all of the company but why even bring the Rock in? Just to garner some sales? People are to stupid to see this but whatever. Lets not forget HHH gets to have his buddy come in and stink up the place. You know TNA has a problem letting old ass wrestlers compete but atleast they aren’t alone. No one cares about Nash. Anything he did that was relevant was 15 some odd years ago but even that became old and stale. He and Vince get to pick who gets a nice push and who doesn’t. The fans don’t matter. Doesn’t anyone see this? They push guys like Sheamus for so long until idiots buy into to his character when he’d be nowhere without HHH holding his cock. I can’t stand how both HHH and Vince fuck shit up for everyone. One things for sure, atleast it isn’t as bad on SD! but regardless there are still more watching Raw and they choose to make JR look like a fatass who needs help. He had Cole bring up Lawler’s dead mother which was just distasteful and they fired one of the women who can wrestle and not just look good in revealing clothing. There is no reason to even have a so called divas division. Hell they don’t even need a tag teams championship. When was the last time the tag team scene was even fairly decent? Both the US and IC belts are more like props than being something that is worthy of having. The world title scene sucks since they book the same shit all the time. They ruined the Punk angle that was so hot during the summer. Sure the may get to be WWE champion but was it worth having you job to HHH? He did that just to say I have power and you don’t. It’s a ego thing and it’s rather pathetic but I can sit and bitch about the product but it’s so much easier to JUST NOT WATCH IT.
When both WWE and TNA were some of the shittiest companies in 2006, I personally stopped watching them and went back to the true alternative which included watching ROH and SHIMMER along with stuff from Japan. I can’t tell how much it was a relief to not worry about seeing the garbage sheeple eat and it’s pretty much the same way. That year ROH had an incredible feud with CZW which basically made me a fan again. I couldn’t stand either product and I kinda faded in and out since WWE put fans on notice that it’s going to be about Cena and Orton and Batista at the time. There was no room for anyone else except for the veterans like Mysterio, Taker, HBK (before he left) etc, but other than that what was the point of watching the same people take control of something I used to love watching and at one time was going to be. Once I knew HHH was basically the one who was saying who gets pushed and who don’t, I couldn’t stand it. Vince also has no one to say what’s good and what isn’t. People can blame other sports for the lack of ratings but when you were to give people something worth watching they’d never have a reason to watch football, basketball, hockey or whatever. When someone says the ratings are down because of such and such, it’s just an excuse to make it seem that WWE is only doing bad because of what else is on. STOP MAKING EXCUSES. That is all.
you're own stupidity will lead you to your own downfall
by congestedthoughts on Nov 3, 2011 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
Wrestling has always made excuses. Con men always do.
"Pain or damage don't end the world; or despair, or F*ckin beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment coming. Stand it like a man, and give some back." -Al Swearengen
.
“There is absolutely no reason for any fan on Earth to think that Punk has any chance of winning the belt at Survivor Series because he hasn’t won a match since ’Nam”
Except that del Rio has been made weaker than Punk, Punk despite consistently losing has been very much protected, while ADR has been beaten clean by Cena, Show and CM Punk.
I don’t think there’s any reason for any fan to think that Del Rio has any chance at retaining that title without Major cheating.
I might be showing my ignorance,
but what good will it do to stop watching WWE or TNA? What I’m trying to say is: unless you have one of those Neilsen boxes hooked up to your tv, it won’t make any difference whether you watch something or not. Or is there some other way they go about collecting viewer data nowadays?
Been watching since '84.
When wrestling is bad, it’s embarrassingly awful. You get things like Mae Young giving birth to a hand, Katie Vick, and the Lex Express. Things that no sane human being other than VKM could ever find entertaining.
But when it’s done right, there’s nothing better. Foley winning his first title, Jericho’s debut, The Nexus forming, and CM Punk’s “shoot” promo. These moments are what keeps me coming back. I’m hoping to see them get it right again.
But you’re right. McMahon seems more interested in entertaining himself than he does his fanbase anymore. The Cole/JR feud is proof of that.
Ha!
That’s when I stopped watching… When Mae Young gave birth to a hand, and I didn’t tune back in until Nexus debuted.
Now? I have Raw on when I’m online but I barely pay attention. And when I actually do? It’s rare when I’m not twitching at how awful it is or rolling my eyes at the ridiculousness of it all.
Bitch.
by timetosaygoodbye on Nov 4, 2011 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions

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